Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Backpacking gear question

What's a ballpark figure for how much weight I would have to carry for a 4 night backpack in the Sierras? I'm thinking of light but not ultra-light gear. For example, a bivy sack instead of a tent, a waterproof down parka (Feathered Friends)so I don't need to carry a separate shell, carrying food that only needs to be re-hydrated with boiling water so I can get by with one lightweight pan, etc. I assume I would need a bear canister.

One consideration is I feel cold even when the temps are in the high 40s if I'm not active, so summer-weight gear probably doesn't work.

It's been years since I have been backpacking. I trail hike, usually once a week, usually Mt. Baldy, and I've camped in the Sierras in the past few years by hiring a packer to drop my dunnage at a camp site and come back in an agreed number of days to carry it out.

If I can get some agreement on an estimated weight I'll go to REI, load a pack with sandbags, and spend a couple hours going up and down the stairs to see if I can get agreement from my back.

Thanks
Burt

Okay, I'll bite. You say light, but not ultralight. Still a lot of variation (are you bringing campshoes? what type of cookset? what type of sleeping pad? are you tall/heavyset because, if so, your clothes, food, and equipment will be heavier?). But, skipping all that, here's my guess.

Pack,clothes, equipment (everything but food & water): 18-20 lbs.
Water: 2 lbs per liter. I'll put you down for 1 liter.
Food: If you repackage and are careful about it, and weigh less than say 180 lbs, I'll put you down for 1.5 lbs a day. Is that 4 days or 5 days? I'll assume the latter.

Grand total: 26 lbs to 29.5 lbs.

Might want to test a pack with 30 lbs.

Thanks, Akichow, that's very helpful. To answer some of your questions, which I hadn't considered, I'm 5'11", 155 lbs. If I carry only food that just needs boiling water my lightweight Snowpeak titanium pot and MSR Windpro stove should do for cooking. No campshoes but some rubbber sandaks for wet foot stream crossings (I guess they double as camp shoea, too.)

Then I think the estimates indicated are probably pretty accurate. Your set up sounds similar to mine (I love my Snowpeak titanium cookset).

Pack weights can range from 2 lbs to 6 lbs. If you keep your pack to 30 lbs or less, then the REI Flash Pack may be a good choice. REI has a sale in its online outlet site for last year's Flash 62 -- only $129. http://www.rei.com/product/863029/rei-flash-62-pack-mens-special-buy#specsTab . You won't find it in the stores.

Sleeping pads can run from as little as 9 oz to 3 lbs. So that is another decision point.

Good luck with your project!

P.S. I wouldn't, myself, go without a lightweight rain/wind shell. If it is summer and raining, you will not, repeat will not, want to climb in a down jacket, no matter how rainy it is. You will literally sweat to death.

P.P.S. The REI folks will load a pack to simulate trail conditions with a combo of sand and pillows. This is critical -- loading a pack with improper weight distribution will handicap your success.

You just saved me some money and maybe some misery with your good advice to carry a rain/wind shell. If I'm going to carry a shell - and you've convinced me I should - I don't need to spend the big bucks for a waterproof down parka. I already have a Marmot Precip jacket which I can use with a less expensive insulating layer.

That's the type of advice which is very helpful. I consider this BB to be the source for solid info about everything to do with the mountains. It's been too long since I've backpacked for me to trust my own knowledge about gear.

burtw - don't know when or where you are planning to hike, but there are times and places a mosquito head net is essential for your mental health. Also, discovered last year "camp soap" now is available as small, thin sheets kept in a container the size of a dental floss pack - be sure your fingers are very dry when you peel off a sheet or two. I hope you plan to take a camera.
Happy trails!

Forgot to attach this link from the east coast - Sgt Rock's Hiking HQ...

http://hikinghq.net/getting_starterd.html

A lttle more info about my level of experience: I thru hiked the JMT twice, once solo with the HST added on-21 days on the trail with no resupply. Since I stopped backpacking I have been on several supported trips in the U.S. and Europe and dayhike almost every week. What I was looking for was an estimate about overall weight and input on gear, like large packs and clothing layering that might have changed significantly since I last backpacked and to jog my memory about things I might have forgotten. I got that here and some more today when I spent hours at REI. So, thanks for the good informmation. Akichow, I picked up a nice rain shell at a deep discount today.

Yay! One of the most important items to my thinking. Even if you don't end up having to use it...!

By the way, speaking of new techniques and new gear, I just picked up a new one that I am going to try out in a few weeks. Usually I do freezer bag cooking to save weight and reduce clean up. But all those accumulated dirty plastic bags get kind of tiresome, and who really wants to eat out of plastic, anyway? So now I found this cool pot cozy (you can easily make your own). So I'll still make meals where all you do is boil water, but instead of adding the hot water to a bag to seep, I'll add the food to my titanium pot to seep. Can then bring a few bags of bulk supplies, rather than a bag for each meal, and cut down on the garbage, I hope. We'll see....

Also, after years of happily using a steripen, I bought one of these for $24.95, and put it on an old Camelbak bladder (spliced the line and inserted this between the pieces of tubing) to create in-line filtering on demand. No pumping, no batteries, and it is only 2 oz. (though for longer trips you have to carry a syringe to clean it). And it works as a gravity pump in camp..... Psyched!!!!!

I am hoping to max out at 30 lbs with 9 days of food. Remains to be seen whether I succeed.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing where your new gear takes you. And pictures!

I carry a Sawyer filter all of the time -- even when I am traveling backcountry in a vehicle. A very nice set-up with minimal parts & no batteries to fail. I used the two-bottle system to filter/drink, but I really like your idea of using the inline bladder system -- nice share.

Akichow, you are an endless source of good ideas! I will definitely do the in-line water filter. I've never been happy trusting my water purity to a battery driven device.

My next question is: bear canisters. From the reviews I've read, the choices are: no good, lousy, and worse. What's your (and any other readers') recommendation for an approved canister that will hold food for 1 person for 7 days, based on security, packability, and convenience? (I don't expect to go out for 7 days right away but I don't think it makes sense to get something small and have to upgrade in a little while.)

I went to REI yesterday and the great staff person showed me a tent that weighs only 2 ounces more than the bivy I was considering and costs a lot less. Of course, I'll want to add a footprint which will add to both the weight and cost but I think it will be a better choice than the bivy. Any feedback on that?

He (Gio) sized me up physically and listened to what I was interested in then recommended an Osprey Aether 60 pack. We loaded it with 30 pounds and I wore it around the store, up and down the stairs, for a couple hours and it felt great. My back isn't bothering me at all this morning, which I was worried about. I tried 2 other packs, a lighter Osprey and a heavy Gregory, but his recommendation was the right one.

Thanks again to everyone.
B.

i recently acquired an osprey aether 70. the hip belts are changeable. make sure you get the one that fits you - even if you have to exchange it with osprey ( free ) for a larger size. i struggled with a too-small hip belt. with the right size - heaven. ymmv.

Go with the tent... if you ever encounter some of that Sierra Summer Bad Weather, you'll be happy to have the extra room. Just make sure it's seam-sealed from the factory (unless you love wasting time sealing it yourself...). It will leak otherwise.

I use(d) a Nemo... similar design to some of the more popular brands, but it was sealed from the factory, where other's weren't. Can't recall, but I think it tips the scales at less than 3 pounds with the footprint. (Looked at the Nemo site... they don't make my tent anymore, so I can't even tell you what model it is.)

Tents

Big Agnes Fly Creek UL 1(or UL2 for a few ounces more) is the lightest mass-produced tent out there. It was my go-to tent for many years. You cannot go wrong with that. About the same weight as a bivvy plus tarp but without the condensation and space issues.

If you go cottage industry, don't require free-standing, and are willing to use trekking poles as tent poles, then you have have some other interesting options, including:

1. Lightheart Designs Solo 29 oz. Need extra stakes. I just bought one and am loving it.

2. Various tents sold by Six Moons

3. Various tents sold by Tarptent.

The Lightheart Solo is basically a one-piece doublewall tent, and so far I have not had any condensation issues. The Tarptents can have condensation issues and depending on the model may require some sophistication in choosing a good spot, developing a good pitch, etc.

Bear Canister

By far the best product is the Bearikade Weekender . It also costs a ton of $$. Worth it if you plan to backpack a lot. You could just rent one if you want to give it a spin. Easiest to use, lightest weight/volume ratio. I have one, and you could not pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Second best, depending on how many days you plan to be out, are the Bearvault 450 and 550. These are see-thru and reasonably lightweight which is nice, and cheaper than the Bearikade. They can be hard to open, though, particularly when they are cold, and some bears (rare) can defeat them. I have the small one. It used to be my go-to canister, but I hardly ever use it anymore because I now take longer trips, plus the Bearikade is far superior -- and while larger, weighs one ounce less.

Third best is everything else. (Others will disagree. But this is my list, and so I am telling it how I see it.) Basically, if you get one of those tapered-end opaque ones (like the Garcia), you are carrying a relatively heavier product that is tougher to use. The opening at the top is small, so you scrape your hands using it, and you pretty much have to dump out all your food to find what you want. I do not have one of these, nor do I want one. If you gave me one, I'd fill it with sand and use it as a tent anchor for car camping.

Now the asterisk choice (*) for a bear canister is the Ursack . Maybe they are legal where you plan to hike, maybe they are not -- that is still being worked out. The pro is that this is by far the most lightweight and compact (crushable!) option. The con is that they are hard to use properly and prone to user error. Bears do defeat the Ursack in incidents that are widely reported, probably in large part because of user error (it is hard to tie the knot properly), but does the "why" really matter if your food -- and ultimately the bear's life -- are at risk? (The bear's life is at risk because once rewarded, it will keep trying to break into Ursacks, thus becoming accustomed to humans....). I have one and use it for certain types of trips, but I don't recommend it to others, unless you are really good with using it and are backpacking in an area where the bears are not so accustomed to humans. However the Ursack has its devoted fans and some of those fans no doubt will be appearing here momentarily to tout its virtues. 10...9....8 ...

I just looked at the price of the Bearikade. Maybe I could just bribe the bears to leave my food alone. It would be a lot cheaper.

Try finding a used one...and if you do, see what the resale price is. That will tell you something about how good this product is. (Hint: used ones rarely come up for sale; when they do, they are snapped up; and they usually come up for close to or exceeding what the owner purchased them for, as the price for a new one has jumped over the last few years).

Please let us hang our bags again!!!! bears never got to my food while doing so.

Yes, 'Cause your not having to carry that extra 2 pounds is so much more important than that of the bear's health.
"A fed bear is a dead bear."

Apparently, you missed the part where he said "bears never got to my food while doing so"

So I help you out



When done by knowledgeable, experienced people, the hanging method worked.

I am certain that there was more than a bit of tongue in cheek to the original comment, due to the fact that incorrect use of the hanging method is what doomed it.

"When done by knowledgeable, experienced people, the hanging method worked."

I guess you must consider yourself "special" but respectfully have to disagree.
Given enough time, even on the best of hangs, no amount of experience or knowledge "works" 100% of the time on a determined, educated. Sierra bear.
Tongue in cheek or not...