Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Boots

Hello all,

Been reading awhile...first time posting.

I'll be up near Mt. Shasta this winter doing some fish realated work and also doing an extended backpacking trip up the Kern River basin in the next few days. Most likely, elevations encounered will be below 10,000' but obviously over snow.

I'd like to hear the boards opinion regarding footwear needed for extended travel during winter conditions in the sierra. Can the same boots one would use to attempt the mountaineering route on Whitney during the winter/spring be suitable for travel at lover elevations? Do people carry two pair of boots during winter backpacking to high elevations? Right now I have a pair of well worn full grain leather Asolo gortex boots. Pretty sure these leave me undergunned and I have no desrie to find out to what extent this is true. I'd much rather rely on the sage advise of experieced people than someone trying to sell me the latest.

Hope this is close to being on target;)

Rgrds

I'd definitely get plastic double boots. For a number of reasons I prefer Scarpa Invernos, although you should try several and get a good match to your feet. (I also have a pair of One Sport Everests, which are lighter and warmer, but cost an arm and a leg. I think I paid $500 for mine around 1997 and that was on a pro deal. One Sport got bought out by Montrail a while ago, and I don't know about the availability now.) I also highly recommend vapor barrier liners.

It's not just the cold temperatures, it's the number of hours per day and the number of days.

Before plastic boots, we'd own a separate pair of heavy leather boots just for winter mountaineering. We'd get them at least two sizes larger so we could wear three heavy wool socks. Sometimes wear overboots (vs. gaiters) for extra protection.

You do say you will most likely be below 10,000 feet, though. If you were sure of it, and knew a serious storm wouldn't come in, you might be able to get away with leather boots. But in that case I'd buy them large for extra socks - and if you are going to buy another pair anyway, I'd go with plastics to ensure you'll be toasty warm.

I've also had a similar question about boots for winter use. How comfortable are plastic boots for extended approach hikes? Would plastic boots be appropriate for an early season attempt (say April) on the MR? Are there any tips on fitting plastic boots? Does anyone know of a good store in Southern California that sells them. My local REI does not have any and Adventure 16 had none when I checked a few months ago.

Hmmm... the old plastic vs. leather debate. IT's become less clear cut of late. I believe R&I (or was it Climbing) ran a comparison of the newer leather boots and plastics, and the upshot was that the newer leather designs are every bit as good for winter mountaineering as good old plastic.

I've got a pair of Invernos and a pair of Cerro Torres. I've worn both in Sierra winter, and they were both comfortable, even on approaches. I prefer leather for technical work because they don't put as much distance between your foot and the rock/ice. Bob R put in a plug for Invernos, but the key thing is fit. I've worn Koflach boots and found them confortable as well. REI carries the Degre, which is cheaper than the Inverno.

If you're a skier, you might have better luck getting bindings to work with plastics. If your feet run cold you might want to consider overboots no matter what you buy.

As far as buying decent mountaineering boots in SoCal goes, forget it. I wound up buying my Invernos mail order from Alaska Mountaineering & Hiking (http://www.alaskan.com/amh/). It's not the optimal way of buying boots, but the folks up there are used to fitting boots long distance--it worked out well for me. I bought my Cerro Torres at Neptune Mountaineering in Boulder. REI has a fairly limited selection, but they will order them for you to try on without forcing you to buy them, at least that was their policy when I bought my last pair of boots.

The ongoing debate. The key is the amount of time you will be in snow. If you will be in snow for days on end, there is no comparision, plastics are just superior. They don't freeze (leather does), they don't get wet (leather always seems to, no matter how they are treated), and leather is not generally a good insulator. Plastics have serious insulation. In addition, you can take the liners out and wear them to bed, giving you a great insulating layer on your feet, and drying them out.

If you are going to be in and out of snow, leathers can work fine. I know that RJ Secor perfers supergaiters to overboots, and they would work well in that application. I find my Koflack's comfortable, but I had to do some work to find the right fit.

I'd say from my limited experience wearing plastic boots, and what I observe with others, that you probably should carry two sets of boots for any snow combined with regular hiking. Bob R. is right to suggest wearing a few pairs of heavy and medium weight socks, as these seem to be more effective in keeping your feet warm. If you are skiing, though, this may prove bad for control.

Ski touring with so many others, I see the newer plastic boots are advertised to have some flex. This is of importance if you are going to be walking, as on a dry trail, for some distance. I see so many chewed up heels from non-flex plastic boots. Even with leather, non-flexing boots, I had to apply new patches of moleskin or other skin protectors each day if I was to enjoy, not suffer! The three miles of horizontal distance on the Shasta regular route would probably be O.K. with plastic boots, since you won't be flexing that much. I find just two miles of regular hiking starts the skin erosion, so unless you like putting on moleskin, use a pair of light hiking boots for extended walking. They can be stashed when you switch to plastic boots, assuming you are going out the same way.

For the poorer hiker, a one time companion used sneakers with snowshoes. Use three pairs of socks, and put a thin plastic liner, as a bread bag or grocery store plastic bag, between each set of socks. Carry plenty of replacements. The plastic bags do wear out, but they are light to carry, and easy to pack out. I never used the VB liners, as they are ridiculously expensive, and I fail to see that they would even work! But for expeditions, maybe they have some use (some pros seem to agree!).

I did some experimenting with liners and leather boots way back when I was into major winter Sierra travel. Carry spare pairs of socks, and dry out alternate ones on sunny days with a breeze. Tie them on your pack, outside, when you are moving. If they get real wet, and it is below freezing, this may not work. I've had plenty of frozen socks to try to dry out, and often I just had to bite the bullet and wear them! Miserable, compared to what you have now. This was in the era when all socks were wool, with no polyester. You'll survive, but it won't be as fun.

Keep in mind I don't have the experience with plastic boots as Bob R. He's done some big Alaskan peaks, where it will get extremely cold. I never ever did any of that! And remember, before about 1975, all boots were leather. Sno-seal or other applications can keep boots dry, especially when it is below freezing--there'll be no water to wet anything, except right next to warmer skin. I'll take powder over slush for warmer feet.

Ken raises an additional question that's worth considering. While I won't argue with him over the leather/plastic issue, I would point out that 1) there are insulated leather double boots as well as some new hybrids, and 2) wearing liners to bed can reduce a down bag to a frozen mass of ice and feathers overnight. So the question is, down or synthetic for sleeping bags? If you plan on drying wet boot liners, socks, or what have you by taking them into your sleeping bag at night (the only thing I've found to be reliable in winter) then I think synthetic is the way to go. The advantages are lower cost (like about half the cost of an equivalent down bag) and water resistance, while the disadvantages are bulk and shorter life span (they eventually lose their loft as a result of being stuffed in stuff sacks).