Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board New Gun Law for National Parks

[quote=California-Trailwalker]Been lurking on this thread.

Roughly, my mental process might go something like this.......



I actually had similar thoughts last November....Had a few days off work before Thanksgiving, so I went to AZ for an overnight in the Superstition Mountains area. In the morning after packing up my camp, I was preparing to head off for a short dayhike to the Reavis Ranch area, when a man startled me by walking into my campsite (just off the trail and a common spot, I was simply surprised). Well I was even more surprised when I saw the holstered gun on his right hip...My reaction was to "pull in" a little, as I was pretty wary of this person with a gun and no one else around on a Wednesday morning. I definitely wasn't my normal semi-friendly self, and I was not too comfortable just standing around talking. I didn't ask about the gun (legal in AZ anyway), I just chatted a little bit about the area since I had never been there. Then I took off for my dayhike but the whole time I wasn't sure my backpack and gear would still be at the campsite when I returned....fortunately it was.
So definitely you won't be seeing me carrying anywhere.

58 counties, 480 incorporated cities, 1 state legislature, for a total of 539 different bodies authorized to enact laws or ordinances.

Jim, Georgia has 159 counties (insane, I know - only Texas is crazier) and about 800 incorporated cities and towns (many of them smallish, but then again 6 million of Georgia's 10 million people are in metro Atlanta), but the firearms regulations are pretty homogenic throughout the state due to the state law pre-emption statute - in other words, no governing body may restrict firearms regulations further than state law allows, which is pretty wide-open.

However there is one city that has "enhanced" state law by having an ordinance on the books that requires every head of household to possess a firearm and ammunition. The city is Kennesaw (right next to my little burg of Marietta), and it actually has an NPS-operated park within it's city limits - Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park - with about 27 miles of extremely heavily-used trails lacing two mountains. From Wiki:

On May 1, 1982 the city passed an ordinance [Sec 34-1a] requiring every head of household to maintain a firearm together with ammunition. It was passed partly in response to a 1981 handgun ban in Morton Grove, Illinois. Kennesaw's law was amended in 1983 to exempt those who conscientiously object to owning a firearm, convicted felons, those who cannot afford a firearm, and those with a mental or physical disability that would prevent them from owning a firearm. It mentions no penalty for its violation. No one has ever been charged under the ordinance. In the first year, home burglaries dropped from 65, to 26 in 1983, to 11 in 1984.

Even though the law is clearly tongue-in-cheek, has no associated penalty, and has never been enforced, I suppose a broad interpretation could be made by some that it now requires all KMNB park visitors to be armed and loaded . . .

Good for some comic relief anyway in what has occasionally become a flashpoint thread.

OK. Again, I'm totally winging it and have seen no official NPS policy. This new law adopts whatever the state gun laws are for the park. In California, you may only have a loaded weapon where use of a weapon is allowed (hunting & target ranges, for instance). Also your own home or business. OR, where you have a Concealed Carry Permit (CCW). These are issued by counties and are increasingly hard to get. You pay a fee, pass a background check and usually have to justify the need. As such, they're actually kind of rare.

This open carry thing is kind of new to me. Apparently California law does allow you to carry a weapon openly but it can't be loaded. There are some restrictions:


This is from OpenCarry.org. I'll assume they're correct, though a bit biased.

I assume, then, that it would also be OK in a National Park under this new law (again, I have no specific knowledge here -- just going on my own maybe flawed interpretation). Since it's been legal for awhile and since it's not taken advantage of too often elsewhere, I suspect the same would be true of National Parks in California. One of those brief flurries, maybe, because they can and want to (pardon me) strut around, but over time I think it'll be the same as anywhere else and will go away.



It definitely changes the dynamic 'cuase you're wondering "why is that person armed?" In California, where CCW and open carry is rare, you've got a tiny alert going off in your brain. It may be perfectly fine -- and probably is -- but you're still up on your toes a little. It's true that LE rangers are armed because "we have to" but it's a critical tool for law enforcement. All LE rangers recognize the necessity and responsibility. My complaints have been about the weight and trying to keep the risks that some people use to justify the need in some reasonable perspective.

Speaking of armed contacts, a few years back on Kearsarge Pass, a guy was going to come into the park with a loaded gun in his holster. I was politely and firmly telling him he couldn't do that. It never got especially tense, but it was definitely animated. He finally turned around and headed back down the USFS side. I then realized I'd done the entire contact with a large stuffed sheep strapped to the top of my pack (don't ask..). I think this ought to be some sort of test for rangers of Command Presence -- overcoming a clown nose or something while gaining compliance.

Just found this thread which seems very informative on how the various laws (California & Federal) apply:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

g.

George,
California law says you may carry a loaded weapon in your home, temporary home, place of business, and campsite. Campsite is the scary part and where I have issues. I can't help imagining Yosemite car camping campgrounds with armed visitors especially when the open carry proponents have used "protection from bears" s a rational to be carrying in Yosemite.

Campsite also applies to all the campgrounds around the portal and any tent that is pitched on the routes to the summit of Whitney.

This is a quickie.....are loaded or open carry laws the same in California State Parks as they are now in National Parks?

Icy, according to the Calguns link above by George, state parks are unaffected and weapons are still prohibited. The law only affects federal land.

CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (a) Cannot carry in a State Park. However firearms may be possessed within temporary lodging or a vehicle when unloaded and “packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.”

Given the fact that I don't recall ever seeing open carry anywhere in California in the 21 years I have lived here (and the last ten in a semi-rural conservative area), I don't anticipate a lot of it happening in the national parks. Yes, there will be a few people who will do it just because they can, but after a while it will hopefully fade into the background.

I will be carrying (CCW)for day visits, but you won't ever know. I rarely carry when backpacking because of the weight, and I don't feel the need in the backcountry. The only predators who offer any real threat are two legged, and I'm not too worried about the people in the wilderness. As I often tell people who express fear of bears when I talk about backpacking, you are in much greater danger in any city in California than you are in the mountains.

My only real concern with the new law is the fact that campsites are considered your home, hence firearms will be occasionally found legally in the car camping areas. My experience this last summer when car camping with my wife's family on the Mokelumne River below Salt Springs Reservoir illustrates what I fear. One night we were wakened by gunfire coming from a neighboring campsite, punctuated by someone yelling Oso! Oso! over and over. I can only guess where those rounds ended up, at least there was no sign that they hit the bear. That was in a no-charge area, so I can only hope that the people who will actually pay for campsites in the front country will be a little more restrained.

This is my main concern too. Wild bear attacks in car camps being handled by emptying a magazine into dark.

I think we're all exhausted with this subject. Until we actually experience the reality of how this is going to effect our lives personally on the trail or in the campground, we won't know a darned thing. We all can imagine scenarios, but it's only speculation at this point.

I opened this thread, and, at this point, I want to thank all that contributed. We got kind of emotionally heated at times but even in those moments we only mirrored what might happen on the trail or in the campground. Better to wrestle with these emotions now in the virtual world than in the flesh....just my opinion.

I now would rather post on "wildflowers" and "missing persons at Boreal Ridge/Castle Peak."

Agreed Icy. The speculation has about run its course as I see it. I can't image what's left to debate that hasn't already been covered - multiple times, and in spades. It is what it is, and we'll just have to see how it works out. It may be much ado about nothing, but at least it kept a lot of us from being bored the past week. Thanks for posting it.

And that's just this year's edition...

Icy,
Stick a fork in it. It"s done.

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