Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Climbing without permit

The website was updated in the last year to include the 2 day rule. I wonder why they added this restriction? Maybe they don't enforce it?

For that matter, if there are left over unreserved permits at the end of business hours why not make them available on a self-issue basis?

This guy wants to climb Mt. Whitney along with everybody else and their dog. There's room on the mountain today. The bureaucracy is the crux of the climb.

Previous you had to check in or call in the day before by noon or your "unused" permits became available after 2pm the day before. Surely they cannot have eliminated these permits from the system also?

Tomcat, thanks so much for passing along that info. It is not covered anywhere on the Inyo site or in Versatile Fred's permit options table. You can see in my first post in this thread that I was urging gophergold to give them a call but I didn't know that he could easily get the permit.

Nothing has changed from last year as for permits, so what you are saying should hold this year, also.

I don't know how it works. I don't live in Ridgecrest. I'm located far enough away that I plan months in advance and pay the $15/head when I hike through the Zone. But if the Inyo website is to be believed you can't reserve a permit the day before. Whether it was unreserved or was reserved and not picked up by noon is probably beside the point. Those permits wouldn't be eliminated from the system. You'd just have to be there in person to get one.

Yes it is.

"Permits for the quota season, May 1st to November 1st, can be reserved by the February lottery or up until 2 days before the trip entry date if space is available. Any remaining un reserved permits are made available for free, one day before the entry date."

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/whitneyavail.shtml

And here is last year's (Jan 2008) copy of that web page:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080212000943/http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/whitneyavail.shtml

The phones work the same from Ridgecrest, L.A., or China
If I was traveling great distance, then I too would want my reservation and travel plans locked up well in advance. But I suspect the system is still the same for claiming unused and unreserved "reservable" permits. There is a certain amount held back for "day of" walk in. But that does not help somebody wanting to start their hike in the pre-8am hours.

Ep, what I meant is that the "new info" is not covered. That is:

At the end of a day, any unused and still available Whitney dayhike permits for the following day may be "reserved" by phone from the Visitor Center for after-hours pickup, and that "reservation" is available for the usual $15 reservation fee.

Sorry Steve if I misunderstood you. I thought tomcat wasn't 100% sure since he said "unless the rules changed this year". The website did change and now has new language about this. So is tomcat right or is the Inyo website right?

I am sure that last year I was able to call the day before for a permit - I did have to pay and reserve to have it left in the drop box. If I wanted to save $15. I had to make it in before closing. Since I had not read the webpage, I cannot tell you what the web page says. I can tell you that I have the INF Reservation Phone number in my cell and the folks there have always been very easy to talk when I have called. Just make sure they know whether you are "dayhiking" or "overnight" to avoid confusion.

ep wrote:
> is tomcat right or is the Inyo website right?

I believe tomcat is right, and the Inyo website has just omitted that info. I'll contact them and ask.

That's nice to hear. It sounds like they're informal enough to ignore their own rules. Cool. [EDIT: I posted before I saw your response, Steve. If the website's wrong all the better. Someone should tell Fred.]

I wonder if our permit cheating friend from Santa Monica has gotten himself in trouble yet today for ignoring a very different rule?

I've never been up the Whitney Trail or North Fork in May. For me it's been June-August and once in February. I've pretty much never seen a ranger, except once when they were removing parts of the old solar toilet. I've got to believe they have a presence there but I wonder what the odds are of meeting one in May?

ep wrote:
> but I wonder what the odds are of meeting one in May?
If you look at the updated numbers on the Availability page for last Wednesday (the numbers are updated to show how many permits were unused), there were 2 overnighters and no dayhikers. Based on those numbers, I am not sure a ranger's time would be worth it.

I met two rangers on this past Sunday afternoon: Dave Kirk was just coming down and another guy headed up as we came down from LP Lake. I think they are trying to have people up there (in both the NF and the MT) pretty consistently this year.

Most likely our permit cheating friend will not see a ranger this early in the year.

We were up there this time 2 years ago and there few people at Trail Camp on Friday night and about dozen on Saturday night.

I have not reserved a permit in about 5 years...including the MMWT, and have only went to Plan B once on a 4th of July weekend. According to staff at MWRS/IVC, we could have backpacked the MMWT if we wanted to that weekend.

Actually, I spent a fair amount of time with the wilderness manager for Whitney a couple of weeks ago.

Last year, they did some significant maintenance on the main trail, and I was under the impression that the rangers would be getting up on the trail as early as possible to clean out water diversion structures and assess any damage to the trail that would need to be repaired before the "hordes" descend (ascend?) upon the mountain. I'd expect that should be happening about now. It's actually a really good time to do some times of trail work.

That likely means you'll see the rangers carrying a shovel right now, in addition to their ticket books......

I find it awfully condescending that in an allegedly free country I have to ask permission (which can be denied) to enter the wilderness. I think any permitting system is BS (be it Whitney, Grand Canyon, or San Gorgonio).

Just because one either has no time to get a permit or, like me, thinks permits are but another form of control, this does not mean we have disrespect for nature. I love nature, it is the State I could use much less of...

i have climbed whitney twice and never got a permit either time. i dont believe the government has the right to deny me use of public land. so i ignore their rules.
i know that may ruffle the feathers of some people here but oh well.
now that mountain biking has been banned by all the greenies i ignore their rules too.
when i get caught i just act nice and clueless and apologize and i never get in trouble.
i will NOT allow the state or federal government to deny me usage of my land in america.
hope to see you all on the trail

Fuji guy wrote:
> when i get caught i just act nice and clueless and apologize and i never get in trouble.

That reminds me of a couple of Sierra Club friends of mine. They were mountain biking in Sierra National Forest, and stumbled upon an abandoned saw mill. There were signs posted to stay away, but all they wanted to do was go past to get to their destination. Unfortunately for them, there was a ranger there who wrote them a ticket. I think it was for $50. Hey! ...maybe they should have flashed their Sierra Club membership cards!

As for following the rules... We all have our limits in this "nation of laws". I probably NEVER make it through my 4-mile commute to the office or back home without breaking at least one law -- whether it be in my car or on my bicycle. I'd guess there are maybe about 1% of the drivers who make a complete stop at every stop sign or right turn they come to, and never exceed the speed limits. And there are huge fines involved, too, if you are cited.

I hope this thread doesn't turn into a flame fest.  Let's keep the personal attacks out of it. ...or someone is likely to delete the entire thread.

For those who take an attitude of ignoring limits, the result was brilliantly laid out years ago in "The Tragedy of the Commons", by Hardin.
wiki on book

The only issue is if the critical mass is reached, because then the resource is guaranteed to destruction. Sort of like the hunter who gleefully kills the last member of a species. Proud as can be. No interference from gov't, he!

I think I'll go to UCR take the classes I want and demand a dipolma. After all, my tax dollars are paying for this concrete edifice, why should I have to pay, for that matter why should I have to study and take classes...just give me a MBA, I demand my MBA!