Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board California Search and Rescue

In Colorado when you buy a hunting or fishing license, or a Colorado Habitat Stamp they build a nominal (50 cents) Search and Rescue Fee into it. Kind of like SAR insurance. Anyone know if CA has such a setup? I'll be attempting Whit in April with some friends and am wondering if there's anything equivalent in CA we could pick up.

Thanks up front for any feedback or input.

SAR in California is paid for by the counties. Technically speaking, it is the responsibility of the county of residence to pay the bill, but generally speaking, the county where the rescue happens fronts it. We'll scratch your back kinda thing. Many times a SAR will bring in teams from different areas, it is generally the local team who coordinates and fronts the bill.

BobR or anyone else more knowledgeable can probably explain it better.

Thanks Snaps,

Interesting setup. I know a lot of SAR groups pride themselves on being volunteer and non profit, and that is really great. Those folks really go above and beyond. I just didn't think those groups or the counties they were based in were going to be able to pony up for all of the costs of those rescues: heli evacs, multiple sherrif department deployments, etc. I always figured at some point.. the rescue effort comes with some kind of final bill from all those components outside of the actual SAR groups resource pool. I'm surprised the local counties can and do handle those expenses.

I doubt many back country users would object to a very nominal fee tacked on to their back country permit to help offset such costs.

Thanks for the info.

I don't know about up in the Sierra area... but I do know that down here in San Diego the injuried/rescued party can be charged for "extraction" costs under certain circumstances...

What would you base that on.
Question your blanket statement that many people would be in favor of added costs on permits fees.

I'm not sure I understand TomCat..

I did make a personal assumption.. I would rather pay an additional 50 cents on a back country permit if it meant that in the event that something went wrong and I or someone with me need an emergency extraction, I'd have some kind of 'stop gap' on an otherwise expensive cost. Perhaps others would see it differently.

Otherwise, in CO you get that insurance as a matter of fact when you buy a fishing or hunting license, and a habitat stamp (required for use of some state area's). I'm not sure when or why they started doing it, but given the easy access in CO to a lot of back country it seems to make sense. As a back country user and sportsman, I consider it a pretty reasonable cost to the individual when compared to the alternative. But that's just me. I guess you could provide people an 'opt out' if they really objected to a 50 cent charge on top of their permit.

Snaps10 said it right. I’ll only add that the subject (we try not to use the word ‘victim’) is not charged, unless he has done something really, really, dumb to get into that predicament. This holds for California; I don’t know about other states.

And we are volunteers, so the counties never have to pay for our services, although once in a while we’ll receive a free meal after a SAR operation. Our personal expenses—gear, clothing, food—are borne by each individual member, while group expenses—radios, stretchers, ropes, hardware, vehicle fuel—are paid for out of the donations the team receives. If an operation occurs during working hours, the members use vacation time to go on it.

(If the incident occurs in a National Park, it is the Park Service that handles it--not the county. But this will be transparent to both subject and rescuers.)

And to note. Our gear, fuel, food, etc. get really, really expensive. Ask my wife, she'll tell you in some not-so-nice terms.

the tax write off on climbing/camping gear is nice.

I'm not sure how the original topic transmogrified from (1) Outland's concern over the cost of a potential rescue and ways to mitigate that with some type of insurance, to (2) the potential bennies for a SAR person (assuming that person itemizes on his tax return--which not everyone does). But I do know that the survivors of the two people on my team who lost their lives doing SAR paid far more in funeral expenses than they saved on income tax deductions. To say nothing of one widow left to raise four young kids on her own. And there are similar examples from other California SAR teams.

In 2008 I spent $2042 on climbing gear and clothing. Cost to me, after taxes: $1631.

I am so sorry, i did not mean to hurt your feelings, i was mearly pointing out one of the benefits of being in search and rescue that the many members in ventura county, and san diego county have used to try and get me to join. i was sure due the fact they are all sworn officers, that i was being told the truth. my mistake, accept my apologies

> i was sure due the fact they are all sworn officers, that i was being told the truth.

Of course you were being told the truth. The fact that you get a write off on your taxes means that you get a discount in the range of 20-30%. When you deduct the $100 for the backpack, it drops your gross income $100. It does NOT drop your taxes $100. It reduces your taxes $20 - $30, if you are in that income range. That still means for a $100 backpack, it cost you $70 or $80. That's real money out of your pocket.

Reminds me of a friend who complains that his taxes are so high that if they are raised much more, he'll have to quit. That is such bogus logic -- even if he's taxed at 50%, he's keeping more income than I am, being taxed at 30%. I keep telling him I'd be happy to trade his income for mine. So far he hasn't agreed.

Also, I think that people don't realize that much of the gear used in SAR is specialized...it is not the typical stuff used for recreation.

For example, rappelling. Using an ATC in the typical way for lowering TWO people will result in disaster. You need to use special techniques, and special gear. Ropes, even, are different. You wouldn't typically want to use the very heavy ropes recreationally. The packs are different.

So, it is a whole lot of additional and specialized gear, which, because it is specialized and not affected by mass purchasing by the public, tends to be a lot more expensive.

The Colorado SAR fund is NOT insurance!! This is a fund that the rescue groups can use to recover some of their expenses if a member of the fund is rescued. The fund is created through a donation that is part of the licensed mentioned or through a rescue card that can be purchased at many sporting goods stores.

When I moved to Colorado and first heard about the fund I made it a point to find a retailer (REI) and put in my donation. I hope I never have to use it, but helping the volunteers recover their cost is a good thing to be part of.

http://www.coloradosarboard.org/csrb-documents/CORSAR%20Card%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

• What does the CORSAR card do?
The "CORSAR" Card helps everyone that plays or works in Colorado's great outdoors help search and rescue (SAR) teams and sheriffs obtain reimbursement of their expenses of search and rescue missions, by paying into the Colorado Search and Rescue Fund.
• How does it work?
When you purchase a CORSAR Card, $2 to $9 goes into the fund. Twenty-five cents of each Colorado hunting and fishing license, Colorado Habitat Stamp and boat,snowmobile and off-highway vehicle registrations also goes into the fund. The fund then
reimburses county sheriffs and search and rescue teams for some expenses, such as lost or damaged equipment and mileage; And it helps equip and train Colorado's search and rescue teams through grants.
•Why should anyone buy one?
If a SAR team happens to incur any expenses during a mission for you, they don't bill it to you. They (or the county sheriff under whom the operate)actually absorb that cost!
Buying a CORSAR Card helps ensure that a county sheriff and the SAR team are financially prepared for the next mission — just as they were able to help you because persons they had previous rescued had a card and the team’s costs were reimbursed.
• What happens if I don't have a SAR card?
If someone does not have a Colorado Outdoor Recreation Search and Rescue Card (or one of the licenses or registrations) the county and its search and rescue team will of course respond to your call for help and do everything they can to assist you. But
if a financially-strapped county or SAR team accrues un-reimbursed costs, it may be difficult for them to properly respond to your emergency.
• How does the card assist SAR teams?
Through SAR Fund grants, SAR teams and sheriffs can purchase SAR equipment such as radios, oxygen bottles, ropes and snowmobiles, and send team members to special SAR training courses. The fund pays for team’s or volunteers' personal equipment that is damaged, destroyed or lost during SAR missions.
• Is this "insurance?"
NO.
The SAR Card is not "insurance.” When SAR teams are called and carry out the mission, they won't bill you. Never wait to call for help. Delaying a call for a SAR team can cause needless danger in a rescue, or unnecessarily complicate a search for a missing person. Always err on the side of caution and call 911 as soon as possible.

This seems like a worthy approach. I wonder how well it works in practice? I also wonder how it would be to do something like this in Ca?

I should point out that if the incident occurs in a National Park, it is the Park Service that has jurisdiction--not the county. I edited my post above accordingly.

This can have interesting consequences. Some years ago a person did not return from a climb of the Mountaineer's Route, so Inyo County initiated a helicopter search. They located the fellow's body from the air. He had fallen just below the summit, so ended up above Arctic Lake. In Sequoia National Park.

The dilemma: Should Inyo turn it over to the Park because it was in their jurisdiction, but in so doing, delay further action? Or should they finish the job since they were already in the area?

There was considerable communication between the two agencies until a decision was reached. In the end, Inyo handled it; I remember being flown in with other members of CLMRG to recover the body. An interesting sidelight: There was still snow in the final 400' chute, and the fellow had crampons and an ice ax. They were strapped to his pack.

Ugh...

and now you know the rest of the story as to why i politefully declined joining search and rescue. for some fun reading do a search on jim bridwell with YOSAR, one of my heros.