Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Boot Quality

Interesting that there's a new topic on Mountaineering boots...

Since Tuesday, I've been planning on starting a topic on boot quality.

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The Italians are well known for making high quality boots. Unfortunately, these don't make the grade. They've had fewer than 10 climbs on them! (The only thing that keeps me from using the "C" word is that they have been exposed to a few years of storage in Los Angeles. And we all know what smoggy air does to things, especially rubber.)

While at the Portal Store, Doug also made a comment about being disappointed in boot quality after listening to my harrowing tale of descending the MR after this happened to my boots.

Whoa, talk about flats! Perhaps, blowout is the word. Unbelievable.

Four words:

Duct Tape

Shoe Goo

Wow...glad I wasn't a day into a 10-day, 60+ mile trek at Philmont in those! My 30+ year-old Vasque Hikers are still holding in there. The hardened scree collar cost me a torn Achilles' tendon back about 1985 but I still keep them treated with SnowSeal and use them when I'm shoveling snow (we occasionally get enough in St. Louis to require shoveling...not as often as in years past...).

My current boots are Salomon Adventure 9s for mountaineering and the pair of Hi-Tec boots that we bought for Nathan when he and I climbed Whitney back in <a href="http://www.mtritter.org/batting.500/">'01</a>. Fortunately, that was exactly the right time for his feet to be the same size as mine, and my hand-me-downs have worked fine around MO and on a Philmont trek. I'm hoping to get next year's Philmont trek out of them, as well.

Nathan has a different model of Salomon boots and they have held up through several of our later highpointing trips plus Philmont. Fortunately, he has stopped growing and these will last him for a while.

Both he and I have low-volume feet and the current Vasque boots fit us about like Ronald McDonald shoes. The Salomons fit us much better...

Richard...I've read your posts and you're quite the mountain man, but those things you posted pictures of aren't really boots...more like high top running shoes. Sorry and I don't mean to seem caustic, but that type of shoe is made for casual use. Maybe it would be better to use Goodyear Welt type boots with Vibram soles. they are heavy and clunky, but perform well on rough terrain..The shoes you picture are lighter and more comfortable, but they come apart..as yours did.

Adrian

It could be a lot of things, such as, a bad glue lot, something in the sole or manufacturing technique. It really hard to say what the problems is. I worked for a shoe manufacturer a lifetime ago.

I threw out a pair of Zamberlan Civettta this summer after 7 years of hard wear and one resole. I have a 2nd pair which I will resole this winter after 3 years of similar hard wear. I buy quality and if they don't meet expectations they go back to REI for replacement.

Hi don't get me going on boots and the level of boots they put on the market , Go to the next outdoor retailer show talk to the boot companies and ask why they produce the boots they sell? You will be told that people do not want good boots and opt for the light weight {not cheap models} ask if they ever test the sole material in cold weather to see if the sole turns to hard slick rubber with no traction ask why they use waterproof material in a boot that 99% of the time will be used on dry trails.
The big plus is the 400' long laces they all have and the boost to the inporters . Thanks Doug

Doug mentioned outdoor retailer show, is there a outdoor show in the LA area anytime during the year for the public to go see company products.... mark

Not aware of any. He was referring to the industry-wide show for retailers in Salt Lake twice a year.

I bought a great pair of Vasque Boots in the early 90s and they were awesome. Snow, rock, desert, water. I just kept replacing the insole. They finally gave out...I have bought a few boots since then but none to the quality of those early models. Even the newer Vasque models since to have compromised a bit on quality.

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Scenes like these are what kept me going up, rather than down when I noticed that I was starting to have problems with my boots. The photographer "wannabe" in me knew that we were in for a great day with good opportunities for spectacular photos.

So here are the details of how I got myself into and out of this predicament:

While packing gear, I recalled that my feet had been a little cold at times on the hike up Whitney the previous week, using Gore-Tex trail runners, so I decided I'd throw a pair of winter boots into the trunk. Since I hadn't worn them in a while, I decided on the Trezeta's. These are a hybrid plastic/leather boot that are very warm, very dry (Gore-Tex liner) and kind of heavy. They'd make for a good, safe winter workout.

(Skipping to when the problems started...)

As I approached my usual rest stop slightly above LBSL, I noticed that my left foot felt like I was wearing a pair of flip-flops. OK, we'll finally get to put the duct tape wrapped around the trekking poles to good use. (Alan, I'm way ahead of you on this one, although I don't think I'll ever climb with a tube of Shoe Goo in my pack!) Since I didn't have a whole lot of tape, I decided I'd split the tape down the middle so that I could double-wrap the loose sole.

This solution lasted all of about 5 minutes due to the cold and wet conditions.

OK, what now?

I remembered that I had my pulse oximeter in the pack. It has a neck strap. Cool, I'll tie the sole up with it.

Worked like a charm. I was on my merry way up past Clyde Meadow, UBSL and the steeper slope above.

As I was starting to think about taking another break, I noticed that I no longer had a sole on my right boot. What the ...

OK, it's time for some food (Thanks, Beach. McGriddle sandwiches are a great idea.) and thought.

We're on snow now. How about putting the boots together and holding things in place with your crampons.

Excellent idea!

Worked great!

I climbed up to Iceberg and watched the storm clouds move in-and-out for an hour, or so.

There was enough snow coverage so that I was able to keep the crampons off of rock until I was down below Clyde Meadow. It was interesting trying to keep the crampons from grinding on rock as I crossed the slabs and descended to LBSL.

At about the same time, it started snowing heavily.

Now I'm starting to worry! I've still got the descent of the EB Ledges. Conditions are going to at least be wet, and by the time I get down there, there may be an accumlation of snow.

Can I call down and get someone to bring me another pair of boots up? No, your phone in sitting under the driver's seat!

(Skipping to the EB Ledges...)

I had kept the crampons on for the whole way down to the ledges. I was a little upset, since I knew that I'd probably done irreparable damage to my points with the amount of grinding that I did on the way down.

OK, what now? Downclimb barefoot (Ted could probably do it)?

Think fast, it's snowing too hard to stand around here very long.

I was fairly confident that the left boot would be OK. I stripped the strap from one of my crampons and used it to lash the right sole to the boot.

As you know, I made it down to tell the tale.

The patchwork lasted until I made the stream crossing (I wasn't about to try and down climb the Rockwell Shortcut.) From there down to the Portal, I was "limping," since my right leg was now about 2 inches shorter than my left.

I was amazed at the scene I saw at the Portal. No signs of life. (I later learned that Doug, and company, had departed at about 6:30pm and I arrived shortly before 7:00pm.) A thin blanket of new snow covering everything in sight. I was so tempted to break out a flashlight and do some night scene shots, but by this time I really wanted to get out of the snow and get some real food...

Hi Richard, I feel your pain. I had the same thing happen with my otherwise perfect Asolos this summer. Is it possible that you had treated your boots with mink oil? I did that, and I'd like to share what I learned afterward with you.

After talking to Asolo and to their preferred boot repair facility, I learned that one should never, EVER use mink oil or similar oil-based waterproofing on so-called "dry-tanned leather". Most modern hiking boots are dry-tanned, and also have soles glued on instead of stitched on as they were years ago. Among other things, the oil in mink oil and related products loosens the glue, and prevents you from properly repairing the sole later.

I've spoken to several sad mountaineering boot owners since then who also have had the soles peel off- all of them used mink oil as well. Needless to say I've thrown out my mink oil and now use silicon spray instead. Good luck with your next pair.

That's a great story Richard. So much for the duct tape..that is supposed to be the miracle supply that gets everyone out of any circumstance.

- Lost your axe? Fashion one out of duct tape!

- Abseiled to the end of your rope? Affix some duct tape to the end and continue down!

- Left your thermals in the car? Just wrap your body in duct tape (after applying some Nikwax of course)!

No..seriously..bummer about your crampons tips. Those are some fantastic photos though...! Looking forward to pics and stories of your winter hikes...

Regards..
Chris

Richard,

Tape doesn't really like to work below 50 F and it does like wet, either. Therefore, if you have to use in these condition dry the boot the best you can and put the tape next to your body to warm up. If you do this the stuff most likely will work.

Also, swap out your duct tape from time to time. The release coating on the backing will dry out in time making it impossible for it to unwind...selling it and taking care of the problems associated with is what I do in my current life.

prehistory - Much like Asolo's explanation that mink or other oils ruin glued-shoes, I have heard the same comment about stitched-shoes. Apparently it softens the leather over an unspecified long period of time until the stitches rip thru the holes. Must not be good on either type boot. Last time I saw mink oil it was for softening baseball gloves. I use Nikwax Waterproofing Wax- smells of linseed oil.

I have regularly bought or resoled REI/Raichle leather boots every 2 yrs. No prob.

So, Richard, how long was a "few years of storage in Los Angeles?" :-)

I didn't think any of your footwear ever stood still!

I've been having an e-mail conversation with the folks at Sierra Trading Post (If you've ever seen the ad for their boot guarantee, you'll know that I'm now trying to become their new poster child.) and they were able to track down the order - June, 2001! Sice they were probably closeouts that had been sitting in a warehouse for quite a while, they're much older than that.

I sent a link to the picture of them to Trezeta. I've received no response from them yet...

I never treated the boots. They've got so much rubber and plastic down low that gaitor's were enough to insure dry feet.

Bill, I go through trekking poles so fast that my tape is rarely more than a few months old. Thanks for the tip on warming it up first.

I'll probably use the credit to purchase a pair of Teledaddy's...winter is just around the corner...

Chris, you need to get out here at least a few times this winter...the stories will be better told and will better reflect reality...

I had the same thing happen on Whitney with a pair of Vasque Sundowners. It was not a fun trip down.

I got them resoled through Vasque warranty dept, and then the soles peeled off again shortly thereafter. When I called the warranty folks again, they asked what I had used to waterproof them. When I told them Sno-Seal, they said that the use of Sno-Seal causes delamination and voids the warranty. I pointed out that neither their website nor any information that came with the boots indicates this, but they weren't budging. I think it is pretty poor policy to refuse warranty coverage for a very commonly used waterproofer if they do not offer that information anywhere. Last pair of Vasques I will ever buy. Since then I have been using some Merrells, and I find them much more comfortable than the Sundowners. So there was a silver lining to the whole affair.

My friend has Sno Sealed his Sundowners for years without one boot delaminating.

I guess Vasque has a Double Secret Probation Warranty.

i guess i got lucky. been wearing the same pair of vasque for years. this pair of boots tho,i must say,is the most uncomfortable pair of shoes i have ever worn. it takes about a half hour befor my feet get set in them and i allways wonder if maby it's not time for new ones.but what keeps me in these boots is this: after every hike or climb i take them off and my feet are in great shape. while everyone else is whineing about how jacked up there feet are at the end of the day, i have never had so much as a blister. i take em off at camp,1st thing, throw on the tevas and im good. so i'll keep these old,hard boots they have served me well & show no signs of quiting. AD

I wore Vasque Sundowners for years. However, about five years ago the company began manufacturing the boots in China instead of Italy, and I and my friends all noticed a drop in quality (as well as a jump in price). My friends and I are serious hikers and average more than 1500 mles annually. We have observed that European manufactured boots are superior to those made in Asia and buy accordingly.

I also used Snowseal on my Sundowners without problems.

My Sundowners were made in Italy. They failed nonetheless. If the current crop is lower quality, I'd stay away from them.