Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Whitney Portal conditions

Any chance those boy socuts were there between Sunday, July 1 through today, July 3? If so, that might be my husband and 7 scouts. Either way, good for the scouts. Everyone should follow the scout practice of "Leave no trace". btw... they would have gone to the top earlier today (Tuesday). I'm anxious to hear from them.

wb, when you say: " At Mt. Whitney the education process has to start with the permit notification packet, then a conversation at IVC from someone knowledge, accurate and truthful signage at the trailhead and evening presentation by either a volunteer or a ranger...between July 1st and Labor Day."

I would just point out that many visitors to the Portal are not hikers or climbers, just tourists. They will never have an interaction with a permit package, and will never have a conversation with a ranger. So I'm afraid that signage is the only possibility of education. When I spent a week in the "patio" (ugh), a whole lot of people walked up there in their Zorries to read the messages. Those people tend to be long gone by the evenings, so I'm not sure what a presentation would do, or where it would be effective.

However, I like the innovative way that you are looking at this. Certainly conventional approaches are not working.

Ken,

The last thing I want here is further restrictions but seems to be where we are heading.

My guess is a hour with yourself (I've seen you in action at A16),Doug, Bob Rockwell, Richard, Rick Kent or many of the regulars here would draw a crowd. It has to be promoted at IVC, throughout WP and family campground. You've got an interested audience with time on their hands all you need is some interesting folks with the gift of gab. I've written the Inyo with a similar suggestion a few years ago...with no response back.

Tom et al. Good discussion but it's just the tip of the iceberg (not the lake!). I was up at the Portal Father's Day weekend with 6 dads and 6 daughters that were 10 and 11. We arrived first and walked from the group camp downstream to look for trout. Just about every pool below the first car bridge had trash in it. Someone for quite a ways had tossed UNO cards into the creek which my daughter waded out to collect. Then on the side were empty cans and a bottle, just sitting there. We picked this stuff up but at this point I told my daughter I couldn't take it anymore and let's go back to camp. Hiking back up, just off the trail was a fat guy with a fire going (not in the fire ring area) burning a large amount of plastic plates and goods. I commented which brought little response. I am a believer that education is the key but I'm beginning to wonder. The campground staff are really nice and considerate but there is only so much they can do. I told Doug about this, more out of my own frustration and wanting to share that with someone. I guess all that I know is that the further that I get from the trailhead, the better things are.

This has been a really good discussion, with a lot of different inputs. One of my frustrations is that the Forest Service does not really appear to solicit such input. The only time I've seen such, is when a proposed action requires a comment period. Even then, I've never heard of anyone getting a response.

What I'm positive of, is that this sort of situation is frustrating to all of us!

Ken,

I e-mailed them one time after receiving my MMWT Trail Permit packet suggesting they add links to this website and the major Whitney website and their response was that is a good idea.

The last time someone from the Inyo took part in a discussion here their response to constructive criticism was with very defensive and not open to differing points of view. The subject was the change in policy vis a vis after hours permit pick up when you go into SEKI.

This is a broad subject that encompasses the good people of Town of Lone Pine. In that they would be affected by any move that lessen tourism to this area.

You are right it is very frustrating.

Here in the Lake Tahoe Basin where we live...any new home being built or new add on construction on any home by law has to install a bear proof metal trash dispenser! Any homeowner that leaves it's trash out and gets reported with pictures for proof...after the second time are fined and are required to install a bear proof.

On the new homes to get your permit signed off with the building department..you have to 1st have your dispenser installed.

This is all because of people that have left their garbage out and the bears have gotten to it...a big problem is the tourist that come here and rent vacation homes...some of them have no clue that we have bears that live here...they leave their garbage out when they leave the rental house..and sometimes it sits out on the curb for a week before it gets picked up...in the mean time bears get to it! In the last few years El Dorado County has really taken a strict stand on people that do this..some homeowners that rent their homes out have now installed a bear proof dispenser or in the contract say they have to either dispose of the garbage by taking it to the dump or taking it with them when they leave..so it is not sitting out on the curb for a week.

I really have a hard time understanding this problem with garbage and the wag bags!! What the heck is the big deal! Seems to me it is just commom sense and respect for the environment to leave it clean and to pack out all your trash including your TP and the wag bags..it is not that hard of a thing to do..what good is it to use a waggy baggy if you are not going to pack it back out with you!! It is disgusting that these are being left out there & trash. Who are these people that are doing this? I don't understand how a person could be out hiking in such a beautiful place..yet they can litter...are they not seeing the beauty of the area and just doing it because it is Whitney?

was back up Saturday night - looking much better at the portals.

saw mama bear and cub - but big bruiser seems to have moved on
Doug doing good with bear management

portals much cleaner condition - restrooms and trash are being kept up. lots of cars last two weekends - must be the last hoorah before vacations/school season starts back.

temps still comfortable at the portals but getting slightly cooler in the evening/early hours.

8 of us headed up the MR on Sunday. left the trail at 4:30am. amazingly light traffic in the NF. I think we were the only day hikers summiting Whitney this day. Daryl H. did pass by on his way to Mt. Russell and we saw a few overnighters who were either summiting or on their way out.

smoke was not as bad on Sunday and we had clearer views than from the previous day's hike. of interest- the waterfall below EF Lake is starting to get ice(more so than last week's trip up to Hale)- so extra caution needed while acsending.

starting up from the Lake we ran into one group on their way down from the summit(they camped at EF Lake) and then just below the notch we ran into a guided group coming down from the summit.

everyone reached the summit incl one first timer to Whitney and 2 more first time MR; amazingly low crowd on summit although did see quite a few sign-ins from the weekend.

noted the fire still burning(appears small) on west side of Kern Divide - I believe this is in the Arroyo Camp area.

brought down one discarded wag bag from the summit and one from the notch - also had to donate one of our bags to clean up a pile that someone "deposited" without even trying to bury.


everyone made it down safetly and in time for burgers and fries from Doug. a great trip with friends - it doesn't get any better than that. this makes 18 weeks in a row above 10,000ft - great way to stay acclimated



more photos here

Thanks for the upbeat report. I enjoyed reading your message and viewing your pics.
So much better to take action like your group did. Thank you. I'll try to do the same when I'm up there and come prepared to scoop a little poop or haul out an abandoned wag bag.

Re: the smoke. Could you smell it? (We're going up to that area soon and my wife's kind of sensitive to smoke in the air.)

the only time I really noticed smoke smell was while showering down south of Lone Pine - also noticed from Ridgecrest this week that skies are clearer. can give further update again after this weekend.

Gotta chime in here quickly, and sorry if this is a little off topic. Tomcat - your post and a couple of pictures describe "EF Lake." What does that stand for and when do you pass that on the MR Route? I thought the only lakes you pass are LBS, UBSL and Iceberg. What am I missing?

Thanks!

EF Lake = East Face Lake - last known water on the MR - name changed to Iceberg Lake on more recent maps


don't forget about Girl Scout Lake you passs along the way - known on some maps at Barney Lake

I was guessing that EF=Iceberg but was not sure. Thanks!!!

True, if the folks who need to hear it read this board. I doubt they do.

CaT

Don't know where you got that quote but I'll respond to what I think you were referring to.

I believe the folks on this board far outnumber the people who leave wag bags on the trail. In a society there will always be people who do the wrong thing and it is up to others to clean up after them for the good of all. I don't mean that a person should clean up every abandoned wag bag that he sees. I wouldn't do that. But I personally would take out one the next time I'm up there.

So to paraphrase your message, I think the good folks that need to hear it read this board. I know that they do.

So maybe we should decide who we are. The problem people. The spectators and complainers. Or the solution folks.

Tomcat's group were definitely some of the solution folks.

Tom:
The fire is south of the Big Arroyo, somewhere in the vicinity of Willow Creek. AlanK first shot it when he and his son did the HST end of July, and it was still burning when I was there around the 10th. It looked pretty threatening when I first arrived at Sky Parlor Meadow, but it was completely apparent how far it was from Moraine Lake. (see photos)

I am happy to report that I didn't find "too" much trash out along my route, and what I did I brought home with me, including some shmuck's long piece of TP from Colby Lake. We all need to take responsibility like this, especially as informed members of this board. We can only then hope for some sort of trickle-down effect from there.

Cheers,
L


From Sky Parlor Meadow looking SW Thursday 8/9/07


From Moraine Lake, looking SW Thursday 8/9/07


From Moraine Lake, looking SW Friday 8/10/07

The quote is from tomcat's second July 1 post further up in this thread.

To be sure I wasn't misreading anything, I re-read both of tomcat's posts again. What I meant by my previous post (quoting tc) was that his posting this incident and pictures on this board, while educational for us, is sort-of like preaching to the choir. The people who do the kinds of things that prompted him to begin this topic (i.e., leaving trash by the trash cans for the bears to freeload) are not likely the same people who populate this MB. Thus, the people who need to hear and see his message are those who are not on this board. Sorry for the confusion.


Yes.

CaT

PS - I'll be taking along a plastic trash bag when I do Whitney in a couple of weeks to pick up any trash, etc. I may find along the way.

That is one persistent fire! We first saw it on the way to Crabtree Meadows from Cottonwood Pass on Monday, July 23. It disappeared from view until we got to Morriane Lake the next afternoon, when it looked a lot like your picture.

for the second time in less than a week found me back up the Mountaineer' s Route of Mt. Whitney. my friend Sierra Gator was taking some "newbies" up on Friday so we arranged to get Tara and Alice along for their first attempt at summiting California's tallest mountain in the lower 48. Tara had never been above 10,000 feet before but she had no trouble with the altitude.

Jim(SierraGator) initially was supposed to be bringing 3 friends - but that reduced to 1 by the time we got to the trailhead. so 5 of us left Friday morning at 5am for our summit bid. the weather was great and the crowds were light - a great day to be on the mountain. Don(Jim's friend) made it partway up the notch)above 13k feet) before tiring out.

the other 4 of us made it to the summit at appr 1:30pm - we enjoyed an hour on the top before heading back down. on the summit we met Reinhold Metzgar. he was staying at the summit hut to get acclimated for an upcoming JMT hike. he plans to beat his previous personal best of 5.5 days unsupported start to finish(210 miles). although his record was finally recently beaten(4.5 days by an ultra runner carrying no tent and no sleeping bag) he thinks he can beat his previous best time by several hours(that will be an average of 42 miles a day) - and than inlcudes carrying tent, sleep bag, etc. oh btw - did I mention Reinhold is 68 years young. we just missed the summit of 82 year old Louise - but some of her family was still lingering at the top and it was fun to share in their jubilation.


we all came back down the MR route together. I think it was a shock for Alice and Tara to come down the very loose rock in the chute - but they did great and we all made it back safetly. we were too late for burgers and fries so Alice drove us down to the High Sierra Cafe for a late night dinner. then we drove back up to the portals and everyone was alseep within 5 minutes for hitting sleeping bags.

Saturday morning we enjoyed eggs and pancakes at the portal store. Alice and Tara headed back to Bakersfield while Jim and I decided to have a light climb day of Thor Peak. although tired we both made it up and down in under 6 hours - that included revisiting the sight that Jim got caught in an avalanche 4 years previous.

pictures for Whitney:
http://tomcat-rc.smugmug.com/gallery/3370859#188177914

pictures from Saturday and Sunday
http://tomcat-rc.smugmug.com/gallery/3372111#188261147



obtw's

the fire near Big Arroyo - smoke still visible - thanks for the mention to Laura and Alan. my friends on the west side have really appreciated seeing the updates

CaT - I don't feel like I preach to a choir. I had a message I wanted to get out. I agree most people from this board are probably a little better informed than others but noone is perfect. only had to carry one bag down this trip - it was on the summit but torn up(with fresh stuff) so I again donated a bag for transportation.

Saturday - after our Thor hike we went down to Lone Pine to shower and eat - rained pretty good in Lone Pine - I imagine there were wet hikers on Saturday afternoon. nice change of pace.


today we just hiked up to Clyde Meadow and back - original plan was to hike Russell via Suicide Col but I was lacking in ambition and motivation. the morning clouds made for some awsome sunrise views - Whitney actually looked "pink" this morning - a rare treat indeed.

Tomcat, Enjoyed photos of your two trips up the MR this week. Nice of you to carry down wag bags discarded by others high up on the Mountain. I have a Leave No Trace question for you and others related to wag bags.

On Tuesday 8/21 (between your trips this week), I went up and down the MR (with lunch and a pleasant swim in EF lake). On the ascent, just below Clyde's Meadow, I came across a used wag bag on some rocks in a very visible location. After some debate, I decided not to add it to my daypack because
(1) possibly a dayhiker used it and left it with the intent to pick it up on returning later in the day
(2) it was barely sunrise and I (selfishly?) did not want to be burdened with it the rest of my hike.
It turned out I saw no one descend the MR that day and did not see it on the way down, as I crossed the creek at Clyde's Meadow in a different location on the descent.
QUESTION: On a dayhike, is it appropriate to use a wag bag during the ascent, leave it behind, and then retrieve it on the descent. For example, such is customary with backpacks at the junction of the JMT and Main Trail. Such use of a wag bag might be thought of as "temporarily leaving a trace." In some circumstances, it is easy to imagine how a "temporary" could evolve into a "permanent".
Thanks, Jim