Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Permits

Edit: This post moved to its own thread.

Just curious as to why you actually need a piece of paper to hike on a trail. What is the difference if a thousand people a day want to hike Whitney. It is just a trail and the mountain seems to be there every year to do it all over again. I went hiking up the Mist trail in Yosemite last week with hundereds of others on the trail and it is still just a trail. Whitney should be there for everyone to enjoy shouldn't it? What are the feds going to do if you are caught hiking with no permit?

It seems to me all this permit process just seems to defeat the purpose of hiking in the mountains. It is called the freedom of the hills, to get away from rules, regulations, and restrictions and just be free. Yes I do understand that there are a whole heck of a lot of people that are very irresponsible with their actions in the back country but do all of these regulations actually change anything.

I'm heading down to climb the MR route on Wed (6-6-07) and yes I am going to do it alone with all the bureaucracy 14,000' below me.

The permits are in place to prevent things like this and this on Mt. Whitney.

Opinions vary on the numbers of permits per day, but just about everyone agrees the permits are necessary.

Craig, there are several reasons.

The Forest Service people are the custodians of this place. It is a wilderness area, and as such it has certain legal protections, basically to maintain it much as it is today, much as it was 100 years ago.

Nowadays, there is a complex process of evaluation of such areas, that involves botanists, wildlife specialists, hydrologists, soil scientists, etc, etc. What all these folks do is evaluate the area from the standpoint of it's capacity to absorb visitors, without change or damage from those visitors.

It is pretty clear that in contrast to the viewpoints of a century ago, that the land had infinite capacity and that the land was there to be used in any way that one wanted, it has a very finite capacity, and damage can last for centuries (look at many Sierra alpine meadows, scarred for what seems forever.)

Over time, it has evolved that the simplest way, and the cheapest way to manage such places, is to establish the capacity, and then establish quotas and permits that limit the usage to those capacities. There are undoubtedly other ways to do this, but we would also have to pay a lot more for that.

In addition, the permit process allows for educational interactions between the agencies and the users. It is amazing to me how many of the people entering wilderness are ill-prepared to act in appropriate ways. To some degree, this process mitigates this, somewhat.

Sometimes the process is inconvenient, and I think that our agency friends could improve their efficiency sometimes. But this is the process that has been put in place to protect our wilderness areas, and I can't think particularly kindly towards those who deliberately try to subvert it. These often seem to be the same folks that don't think they need to bury their waste, to carry bear protection, and build fires wherever they want.

The rangers carry radios. One says they left their permit in their car....they can check. Some think the $500 fine is a bit stiff. The confiscation of the backpacking gear is tough on most people.

I've heard that there is a trial going on somewhere, where a person's vehicle is confiscated, under the logic that it is being used to enable the commission of a crime (trespassing on Federal Land), and is therefore takeable. I think it was enabled by some of the Homeland Security legislation.

Well said Ken.

I would add that precious land management funds are being wasted on spurilous lawsuits and challenges to land manager decisions that do nothing more than make it more difficult for these managers to set rules and regulations to satisfy their job obligations and the public need. A prime example is the massive amount of funds the Inyo National Forest has spent to set trail quotas. And for those that do not know, the Inyo National Forest covers most of the Eastern Sierras from Mono Lake to just south of Mt Whitney.

A permit to enter a wilderness area is a privelege much like the issuance of a driver's license, neither of them is a right.

Ken,

Thank-You for taking time time to respond but don't get me wrong. I do understand that there are only so many camping places up there and no the area must not be spoiled, But a day hike? It is only a trail, what could all these experts be doing to manage a trail. If a thousand people a day hiked the Whitney trail the trail and the mountain would still be there. If this is federal land then doesn't that mean that it belongs to us, yes us the American people that pay taxes. I have no problem with registering and paying a fee to keep the area clean but what is next with the restrictions. It is like our local goverments that always want to raise our taxes. Where does it end. I'll be at the trailhead Wed. morning at 5:00 a.m. Join me if you like, we can discuss this while gaining 7,000'

Craig

Yes, you can have too many people on a dayhike

don't want it to end up like Fuji.

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=1&Number=32315

Craig, Craig, Craig.....
You seem to be concerned that the regulations exist to protect the physical trail and mountain from harm. If this were true, I could agree with you.
What is being protected and preserved is the experience of wilderness.
This is exactly why I am going to climb Mt. Whitney this summer with a permit and not go stroll up the Mist Trail in Yosemite.
Which Wednesday will you be at Whitney Portal? I might just want to come along and discuss.

And oh yes, the land does belong to us, which is why we make these rules, which is why a permit process is in place.

Craig, I understand your frustration. However, this whole business is probably far more complicated than you might think.

For example, one small issue on this trail is human waste. It is astonishing how complex a topic it can be. As I've posted before, here is the link to the environmental assessment that was recently done, it will give you some idea, if you've not seen it:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/projects/whitney/whitneytoiletEAdec03.pdf

It's attractive to look at things with a simplistic eye, because we WANT it to be simple. However, that does not mean that it actually is.