Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board sleeping bag rating for mid february trip

According to summitpost.org, winter overnight lows at Iceberg lake are around minus 10F and can go as low as minus 20F. I'm preparing for a February climb up the MR and have a 0F bag. Are those temps accurate? Would you recommend a minus 20 bag?

Dan

Dan,
In January 2001 5 of us tried to do Mount Whitney on the "normal" route in an effort referred to as "Operation Cannibal." If you go to Summitpost.com and look up trip reports the experience is there (Whitney in January by Chucky). It got down to 8F at about 9,800 feet. I had a -20F bag. You cannot go wrong with a -20F bag (synthetic), though many will claim the weight is not necessary. As I recall the "lightest" bad was rated to 0F. We were all in tents with at least one partner (3 in one tent and 2 in another tent) so the warmth was better than trying solo. Good luck. It is really beautiful up there in the winter if you are properly prepared.

In all my winter climbs in the Sierra, I can’t recall ever experiencing below 0° in the tent. –20° outside can occur with a storm; but if you pay attention to the forecasts you can wait for a good-weather weekend. Tent temperatures in the low teens and single digits are typical.

Others will argue otherwise, but I always do just fine in my +15° Marmot Helium. I own a warmer bag (–40°), but get it out only for expeditions. Being in a tent helps a lot, especially if there is another person to add a couple of degrees warmth. It is super-important to wear warm socks to bed (down booties are even better), and a warm balaclava. If you are still a little chilly, you can put on some or all of the down/fleece clothing you have along.

Sometimes I use a bivy bag instead of a tent, and still get by with my +15° bag.

I'm not ultra experienced in cold weather camping..I've been snow camping only a handful of times. When I was up at Lower Boy Scout Lake back in March I had taken a North Face -40 synthetic bag with me and was fine in a tent. That said...I'm planning on replacing the -40 synthetic with a -20 down bag instead because I wasn't crazy about the lack of compressibility of the 3D Polarguard stuff in the North Face bag. The temperature in the tent when I went to bed (around 8PM) was about 13F and by the time I woke up at 6AM or so it was 1F..so it does get pretty darn cold up there.



-Chris

Like Bob, I find you can usually get by with much less than you think. So far I've gotten by with a Western Mountaineering +20F bag though I occaisionally supplement that with a bag liner or stuff another bag inside it. Last March I bivied in a light snow storm at Outpost Camp with my +20F bag and a bag liner. The only pad I used was a Thermarest Prolite 4. I was surprisingly comfortable. So far the coldest temps I've run into were over the past few weeks where a 0F bag would probably be more adequate.

Bob,

What -40F bag do you have and how has that worked out? Eventually I'll need a colder bag in the range of -20F to -40F. I know Kurt mentioned to me that he uses a -40F on Denali but that if he were to get a new bag he'd just use a -20F. This leaves me wondering what the ideal (for Denali, Himalaya, Antarctica) might be. -20F seems like it might be cutting it close but then I don't have experience in those temps.

-Rick

I've been up there in the middle of winter and used a 15 degree bag with the rest of my warm clothes as part of my sleeping system. Also used a zero degree bag without any additional clothes. A nalgene with hot water is my "secret weapon" (widely used). Every time in a tent with a partner.

Hope it helps.

Fred

I have a Feathered Friends –25° Peregrine, 700 fill. Standard fill for this bag is 37 oz of down, and I got 4 oz. of overfill—hence approximately -40°. It weighs 4 lb 9 oz.

It has been fine for the Himalaya, but I think an equally good or perhaps better question is "What about Denali?" I always claim that Denali can be consistently colder than the Himalaya, although I haven't seen any good analysis to verify that. My last Denali trip was in April/May 1992, and my +10° bag at the time was OK, even though Denali temperatures then were considerably colder than usual. (1992 was a killer weather year for Denali; you can look it up.)

I purchased the Peregrine for Shishapangma in 1993, and it is likely that Kurt's bag is the same one. The team got a special price from Feathered Friends, and a lot of us took advantage. I might mention that I first met Kurt on this expedition—in Kathmandu—only to find out that he lived a mere 140 miles from me at home.

At this stage, if I were in the market for an expedition bag, I would get the lightest -20° bag I could find, and use tricks (wearing warm clothing to bed, etc.) to stay warm if the weather turned sour.

Commenting on the Himilaya...I took a brand new -20 synthetic bag to Cho Oyu in 2000. At 7000m, it wasn't enough for me, even with all of my extreme weather gear on inside the bag. I eventually got tired of being uncomfortable and started buring the stove (The high altitude porters had left six canisters in the tent for some unknown reason.) in the vestibule to warm the tent up.

But, it's pretty obvious that I sleep cold. This same bag wasn't good enough for me just below Taboose Pass during the cold snap we had a few weeks ago (guessing somewhere around 0), when I had 4 layers (including a down jacket) on top and a fleece ear warmer under a fleece hat on my head.

If you are injured, sick, dehydrated, storm-bound, or just plain exhausted then you will need much more protection that you would otherwise in normal conditions. How do you know when this will happen?
Your bag is your final haven of safety. Harvey

I'd have to agree with this comment and it's the reason that Denali hasn't been on my list since I was a teenager. I've been on several peaks in the Himilaya that are higher than Denali and in most cases, I was stripped down to two thin layers. In my experience, once you pass through 6500m, it becomes a whole different ballgame though.

Yeah, that's basically what I figured. Depends a lot on the person and whether you sleep warm or cold. Maybe I'll get the -60F Feathered Friends Snowy Owl. Geeez. -60F??? Probably wouldn't get cold in that one.

-Rick

Veering off topic again...I just got a pair of -60 (C, that is) boots that I'm chomping at the bit to try out.

New technology...simply amazes me. These boots feel so comfortable and so light, I can't believe that they'll keep my feet warm in those conditions. If so, the Onesport knockoffs (made by Millet) that I have will probably never go back on my feet.

Are they breathable? Reason I ask is that I often see boots advertised in places like Sierra Trading Post..like Pac boots or something..and the prices are really cheap and they claim ratings down to -70 or something, but I wonder if you aren't sloshing in sweat by the end of the day? I dunno..having wet feet all day long doesn't sound like a good idea.

Regards..
Chris

It think that you hit one key issue square on - different people can be hot or cold in the same type of bag in the same tent. Knowing whether you "sleep warm" or "sleep cold" is important to know when you pick a bag. The second point is that there are no real standards in sleeping bag temperature ratings. When Feather Friends says that it is a -10 degree bag I've found that it will be much warmer that when other companies have the same rating. Marmut and Western Mountaineering also tend to have more conservative (accurate?) temperature ratings. Finally, most people feel colder at high altitudes at any given temperature simply because you don't have as much oxygen fueling your metabolic fire.

I find that none of the waterproof/breathable materials that I've tried cut it for high intensity activities like climbing. (Haven't tried any of the newer iterations of the stuff due to the cost. My old stuff still serves me well.)

I've also never owned a pair of boots I didn't sweat in... hence the use of a VBL, especially in winter.

After I give the new boots a go, I'll let you know how they do.

(BTW: I'd still be counting on my Teva snowshoeing boots (warm and light) if they hadn't worn out. Yeah, I'm different when it comes to my choice of gear, but in my mind, Whitney isn't a technical mountain and comfort comes ahead of anything else.

What is VBL?
Is it Vapour Barrier [something]?

Does a VBL really work? Wouldn't that just keep your feet wet from sweat?

-Rick

I've heard mixed reviews of VBL's. Some people swear by them and use them all the time, other swear against them and complain of moisture build-up inside the sock. Other people have told me they only use them when expectinig very cold temperautres (single digits and below). Lastly, I've been told that people who perspirate a lot are better off WITH the VBL's because it reduces the chance of soaking the inside of the boot.

Gusto