Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Mt. Whitney via High Sierra Trail

Yeah, I needed to take that picture of my foot 'cuz I knew if I said that I copped out from a blister that I'd be called a wimp. Most non hikers are calling me stupid for not stopping sooner, but I'd rather be called a moron than a weakling.

fantastic photos Kurt.Will have to walk that route some day!

Kurt, I was in the Interlaken area when you posted, at Adelboden, so I am playing catch-up and happened to read your posts today and viewed your beautiful photos.

You crafted an interesting photo--#18 of your Day-5 photos--giving a southeastern view from Whitney's summit. You may interested in knowing that you are one of the rare ones to actually catch a view of Mount Baldy (10,064 ft.)in your photo--164 miles away. It is to the right of Olancha Peak on the skyline. If you know where the Day (Crooks) Needle is, Baldy is in pretty much a straight line above.

I congratulate you for counting the switchbacks on two occasions, but you are among many others who have counted the same way. Because I have heard so many counts over the years, from 95 to over 100, I devoted a Whitney trip to counting and measuring each of the switchbacks. I painstakingly stood at each switchback and carefully recorded each ones exact GPS position and elevation. As I was going through this tedious process, I heard many hikers passing me and volunteering their counts. Virtually everyone reported a wrong number. Part of the problem is how hikers start or end their counts. For example, I've stood at Trail Crest and heard hikers blurt out 98 at that point. The problem is, Trail Crest is not a switchback-point. It is the end of the switchbacks, counting from Trail Camp. (I know you counted the switchbacks going down from Trail Crest, so this did not affect your count.)

Another problem is one of definition. There are many TURNS among the switchbacks, but for a turn to be a switchback, it must actually SWITCH-BACK in direction, in an acute angle less than 90 degrees. There are two turns, between switchbacks #10 and #11 and between #41 and #42, that are not less than 90 degrees, and these may throw some off on their counts. You can see these on my map <a href=http://lwp.smugmug.com/popular/3/71585664>here,</a> if you care to look.

By the way, I did the HST a number of years ago, going the opposite way, but on a different route, from Whitney to the General Grant Tree. I also did it in six days.

Thanks for your excellent photo presentation and write up. I especially like the way you annotated your photo #18 on Day 5, but to get a decent photo of Mount Baldy, is really something.

Wayne, your peak-finding expertise is requested <a href=http://www.mt-whitney.info/viewtopic.php?t=1529&highlight=&sid=6c175a4bcdd4ab250ed4b908dfada2df>here</a>.

Steve C, the very top of Split Mountain can barely be seen in the exact middle of the "first view" photo that Richarad took. I give more details in your link.

Wayne,

Thanks a bunch for your comments. I hope you had a good time in Adelboden. I love this town and have a number of friends living there.

Even though there is no other summit I hiked more often than Mt. Baldy I would have never realized that I got it on picture form Mt. Whitney. I updated picture #18 of day 5 accordingly, I hope I got it all right. On several occasions on the top of Baldy I tried to make out Mt. Whitney. Due to lack of a map and compass combined with insufficient visibility I was never successful.

You sure went through great length to document the switchbacks, be assured of my admiration for such a determination. My comment about the "98" switchbacks is meant to be taken jokingly. I am completely aware that the count depends on the definition of switchback and more importantly where the section of trail under consideration starts and ends.

My definition of a switchback is when the downhill side changes from your left to the right or vice versa as you hike along the trail. Whether this is accomplished with one, two or even more turns, it is still one switchback. I would not consider it to be a switchback if the trail leads around a ridge at nearly 180 degrees since the downhill side stays at the same side of the trail.

I think our count differs at the very start. As you leave Trail Camp towards the west the downhill side is on your right, even though initially it is not much of a downhill. The first sharp bend is a left turn, leading towards that large boulder just below the trail. After this turn the downhill side is on your left and therefore, with my definition, this was the first switchback. However, your first switchback is a right turn which of course has to lead to an odd number as the last switchback is also a right turn. I think we just don's start counting at the same place.

Kurt

Good explanation, Kurt. Thanks. Something more for me to work on. I agree about the multiple-turn explanation for a single switchack, such as what switchback #10 is on my map.

I figured you were well familiar with Adelboden. I had never heard of it, but now that I've been there, it certainly is a most beautiful area, among all the others in Switzerland.

Your annotation updates look perfect to me. I think they are really cool the way you've done them.

Take your compass on your next trip to Mt. Baldy. Mt. Whitney is 334 degrees magnetic north. I recommend sighting in on some closer peaks first, to verify compass precision. San Gorgonio is 92 degrees MN, San Jacinto 107 degrees and Mount Baden Powell 292 degrees. If you see your compass varies from these, hopefully consistently, then add or subtract the difference for Whitney's 334 degrees MN.

Understand, however, you can only see the very tip of Whitney, and that is only in perfect seeing weather. It doesn't stick out like your view of Baldy from Mt. Whitney. All you really can see is the huge wall of the Sierra Crest. Anyway, I think it is fun just trying to spot it.

Kurt:

Thanks for posting all of the amazing pics and information (including about the permits!). I was looking for my "next big adventure" and I think you've handed it to me on a silver platter! Your albums are just as nice as the videos of HikeAlongPete's for preparing someone for the trip! I am definitely heading to REI this weekend to look for a few books on the subject to start preparing. I've even forwarded the albums and this string's web address to a bunch of friends for ideas for next year!

One question: is the trail pretty clear all the way through? If I end up solo-ing, I'd want to make sure there's something to follow. In the meantime I'll be perfecting my orientation skills as well!

Thanks again,
Laura

Laura,

Thanks for the nice comments. I can only recommend this hike.

The trail is very clear and easy to follow. If there is one place where you have to pay a bit of attention, it is after reaching the Chagoopa Plateau on the way down to Moraine Lake. There are two short sections where the tail is a bit fainter than usual, but it's not really a problem. (If everything else fails, there is always the horse poop to follow.) Also, at every single trail junction are sing posts as shown in picture #1 of day 4. There are no special navigational skills required.

If you plan to do the trail early in the season, you may have some challenging stream crossings to deal with, particularly in the Kern Canyon. In September, this was a non-issue, but I can imagine fording Rock Creek, Whitney Creek and Wallace Creek could cause some headache during the height of the snow melting season. Maybe someone more familiar with the area can give better advise here.

Wayne,

Your knowledge is awesome. You sure know your way around those mountains.

Kurt

Kurt, thanks for the compliment, but the ones who REALLY know their way around are Bob R, Doug Sr., Kurt Wedberg and others who live and breath the Sierras. I'll follow them any day! I happened to have developed a computer program that gives all those directions you see, which I am still perfecting.

I've done those creek-river crossings you mention. In strong melt-off seasons, all of those crossings can be extremely treacherous. Thankfully, there are usually a lot of postings in early season to apprise everyone of the conditions.

Kurt:
Thanks for the heads-up. I think I would be doing this in September also, mainly because that's my favorite time of year to travel. I figure fewer bugs, fewer people, less runoff, moderate temps, lower chance of t-storms. REalizing, of course, how fast things change up there (or anywhere, for that matter! Talk to the duststorm I cooked dinner thru in DV last month!)! It also gives me a few more months to train and get a few more 2-nighters under my belt to prepare. If I'm going to be moving ~15miles/day, I want my body to know what it's in for!

Speaking of river crossings, I just hiked the Narrows in Zion top to bottom, and I'd rather avoid getting into any rivers anytime soon, at ANY height!

I'm starting the research tomorrow at REI!

Wayne: can't wait to hear about the program. Sounds highly marketable, and I know I'd love to purchase it. Especially once I get a new computer! BTW: can you recommend any texts on learning land navigation (basic and then progressing in difficulty). My big project for the winter is to teach myself this.

-Laura

You have a good goal, Laura. I don't think you can go wrong with any book on basic navigation. I would recommend a good compass, which would be any of the more expensive ones with a plexiglass base for laying on top of maps and a mirrored hinge-cover for sightings. And in this day and age, a GPS device can be a lot of fun for cross-country travel. When I lived in LA and San Diego, I did lots of cross-country, cross-desert travel, using both compass and GPS.

If you have a favorite place you know about for spotting mountain peaks, let me know by email, and I could give you a computer listing of where to point your compass for the mountains around that spot (assuming the mountains are in my database). It would be good practice for learning how to sight with a compass.

Wayne,

Dou you use a digital elevation model (DEM) in your program to determine if a peak is actually visible form a given location or if it is obscured by another mountain. If yes, which one do you use. My 3D-maps are based on the SRTM-1 data (Shuttle Radar Topography Mission) with a 1 arc second spacing between elevation points. Unfortunately this data is not very precise and contains areas where the elevation level is completely off.

Kurt

Kurt, I am using spherical trigonometry. It gives a readout of each peak's angle above or below eye-level. If a closer mountain has a high angle, and a farther mountain has a lower angle, I conclude the farther mountain's peak cannot be seen. However, it is only good for point to point, and does not allow for long ridges, etc. If a line of sight crosses a ridge or shoulder of a mountain, I sometimes find the exact latitude, longitude and elevation of that point and add that point's parameters to my calculations.

What I am trying to perfect is an allowance for atmospheric refraction, especially for 100- and 200-mile sightings. Dr. Tom Chester at Caltech has some interesting information about this, which you can see <a href=http://tchester.org/sgm/analysis/peaks/how_to_get_view_params.html>HERE</a>. I've used his formula-corrections, but they seem to fail for me when I do actual observations.

I've tried to run a new DEM program on my computer, but can't seem to get it working. Those 3-D models, with mountain names superimposed, directions and distances are really neat, but I too have noticed some errors. Regardless, I still like them. I can at least run GoogleEarth to get an idea of an area.