Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Hiking without a permit

What happens if you are caught on the trail without a permit? Does the ranger make you turn around or give you a citation? How much is the penalty? what if you are on the way down and they discover you don't have a permit?

Turn around - yes
Citation - yes
Amount - Last I heard, around $250 +/-
Downhiking - Depends on which of the two trails you tell them you used to summit; if the Main Trail, see above citation and amount; if the Mountaineer's Route, no problem.

If you are caught on the way UP anywhere on the main trail you will get turned around. The fine depends on where you are caught. Between Trail Crest and the top is a different "zone" I think. I was stopped on the way down about a mile from the hut and could not produce my permit. I was given a 50 dollar ticket. I was stopped again just above Lone Pine Lake and I told him I had already been ticketed and he commented that he would let me slide and I just missed a 250 dollar ticket. That's when I found out about the different zones. I was actually "on" my brothers permit but we split up earlier. It was dismissed once I explained it to Da Judge. (Wearing my Dress Blues probably helped ............................DUG

Wow..the penalty is pretty high. I'll try my luck at the Ranger's station. Hopefully, I can walk in and get a permit for the next day.

Was there on Sat. and even at the end of the day, there were permits available for Sunday. Hopefully it should not be too hard to acquire a permit. Good luck

The worst part is the confiscation of your hiking gear, much like the way they confiscate your fishing gear if caught fishing without a license.

I can see the pack, but I thought taking the boots, and giving you those little hospital booties was a bit much!

LOL!

Another post in jest by the great and wonderful Dr. Murray.

I don't plan to try this, but I don't see why you couldn't just go up the Mountaineer's Route and camp as long as you wanted and then descend the main Trail without a permit, and tell anyone that "caught" you that you just dayhiked the trail (up MR, down MWT), thus needing no permit?

Although I guess your large pack filled with tent and sleeping bag might incriminate you, but you could always say you had it there for an emergency. I wonder if they check permits at Upper Boyscout Lake (where it seems that many camp) to cut down on this "gaming" of the system.

just go... you do not have to play by the rules... I prefer to do my own thing.. if I get caught then that is the chance I take

Rangers do go up the North Fork, although not with the frequency of the Main Trail.

You can be sure that if they start catching people doing this, and they will, that the regulation will be changed, and everyone will be affected by the misdeeds of the few.

It is very easy to tell the difference between a day hiker and a overniter, so don't think that you can talk your way out of it.

desey it's that kind of an attidtude that has put us all in the position that requiers us to have to have permits. now if you are joking then it's cool. with so many people wanting to hike the whitney trail some control is needed. i for one am glad that it's not a free for all up there. whitney is like the biggest guy on the bar, everyone want's a shot at it. if yor are the type that wants to climb the highest peaks in the world ( an there are alot of them out there ) then whitney is on your list. getting permits for whitney is , i have found , easy.

So I do NOT need a permit to day hike the Mountaineers route and descend via the main trail? I am planning to hike the Mountaineers route this weekend and wanted to get Muir as well.

Travis

I went up on Saturday for a day hike via North Fork since I did not have a permit for the MMWT. I started down from the summit and promptly met a ranger coming up to the top. He asked me how I was doing and if I had my permit properly displayed on my backpack. I told him I had come up the North Fork and decided to go down the MMWT. He identified himself as a National Park Ranger and told me I needed a permit. I informed him that had never been the case and had not changed to the best of my knowledge. He asked me how if I didn't need a permit to come up how could he verify where I had come from. I politely told him if the regulation stated I did not need a permit to day hike the North Fork, summit, and return via the main trail then that was his problem not mine. (I didn't check to see if there were any lawyers on the summit at the time for legal counsel!) He asked me for my name and said he was going to call down to verify that. I told him go right ahead and I left on my merry way. Just below Trail Camp I came upon a forest service ranger who again asked me how I was doing and if I had my permit. I explained I had just come from the North Fork on a day hike. No problem, we had a nice conversation, he asked if anyone else was with me and wished me a nice day. Obviously there are some park officials who understand about what permit is and isn't required and some who don't. I do agree with others who posted that we should all do our part in being responsible to avoid causing any actions that would further restrict our enjoyment of Whitney.

Interesting story, georem.

At first, I thought there might be a problem, as once you get to the notch, you are in the park, and I thought that perhaps they have different regulations about dayhikes. But they don't:
http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/traildesc.htm

I think the real problem is that there are a lot of people hired seasonally, who deal with a few problems, over and over.

This particular "wrinkle", is a bit obscure, and usually surprises people who find out about it. I suppose that it is not remarkable that a person who does not work for the USFS is unfamiliar with an obscure part of the USFS regularions. I can't imagine there are a lot of people who do this.

I case I run into one of those rangers who feels I need a permit to hike the main trail even if I enter via mountaineers route, can someone provide a URL that specifically states this, so I can print it off and carry with me. I checked out the following website and could not find it specified on either of the sites below. thanks,

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/whitneyavail.shtml

http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/traildesc.htm

Travis, I looked all over the Inyo National Forest site, and could not find anything. However, I have personally spoken to people in the Lone Pine ranger station who have assured me that is the case. I hope to talk to someone there soon, so I will bring up this point.

Maybe they don't want to publicize the fact for fear that too many first-timers will try the MR, or maybe they have just overlooked putting it onto the web.

I would guess georem's experience above was with a Sequoia NP ranger, since the crest is in their jurisdiction, but the Trail Crest rules are enforced by the Inyo NF rangers.

Travis, I don't think that it is spelled out overtly. The closest it comes is this:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/howto.shtml
----------
When is a Wilderness Permit Required?

Wilderness permits are required year-round on the Inyo National Forest for all overnight trips into the Golden Trout, John Muir, Ansel Adams and Hoover Wildernesses. Day-use wilderness permits are required only on the main Mt. Whitney Trail for hikes beyond Lone Pine Lake.
-------------

There is nothing on the web site which explicitly states that policy. The two closest statements are:

• Wilderness permits are required year-round on the Inyo National Forest for all overnight trips into the Golden Trout, John Muir, Ansel Adams and Hoover Wildernesses. Day-use wilderness permits are required only on the main Mt. Whitney Trail for hikes beyond Lone Pine Lake.
• On the Mt. Whitney Trail: 100% of the overnight and day quotas may be reserved in advance, via the lottery in the month of February. Only trips beginning on the Main Mt. Whitney Trail should apply for the Mt. Whitney Lottery.

One could deduce that since day hike permits are not required for hikes orginating on trails other than the main trail and since the lottery for a main trail permit is not required for hikes that begin on other trails that a main trail permit is not required for day hikes that begin outside the main trail. Nonetheless, the logic becomes fuzzy when you throw in the exit quota criteria.

First Post; sorry for the length
Regarding North Fork permits
(see http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/howto.shtml
Thanks to Ken for the link in his post just above)

On the Mt. Whitney Trail: 100% of the overnight and day quotas may be reserved in advance, via the lottery in the month of February. Only trips beginning on the Main Mt. Whitney Trail should apply for the Mt. Whitney Lottery. New for the 2007 season, lottery applications must be submitted by mail only. No fax applications will be accepted. After the lottery, any remaining openings will be posted on the website beginning on the following dates:

After the Mt. Whitney Lottery, you may apply for any remaining space by phone, fax or mail beginning:

April 20 for trips starting in May or June

April 27 for trips starting in July

May 4 for trips starting in August

May 11 for trips starting in September or later

For all other trails, including North Fork of Lone Pine Creek, 60% of the trailhead quota is available through advanced reservations and 40% is available on a walk-in basis. To apply for an advanced reservation, please follow the instructions on the Inyo National Forest Wilderness Permit Application. Applications for all other trails except the Main Mt. Whitney Trail will be accepted by mail, fax, and phone on a rolling six-month basis beginning on November 1st (i.e., for trips starting July 1st we begin accepting applications January 1st).

Still, something's missing... see also

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/quotas.shtml

for North Fork, Lone Pine Creek trail quota.
Does this apply to MR?

The North Fork, Lone Pine Creek is the MR.
The quota numbers listed on the Forest Service's chart (accessed via the link at the bottom of your previous post) are for overnight permits only, not dayhikes (dayhiking the MR does not require a permit).

CaT