Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board When do you really notice the altitude?

Ken, the flip side of that is that I once had a real easy time on a one-day ascent of Whitney the day after returning to Los Angeles from Europe.

The question would be: were the flights plus a few hours at the Portal enough to aid acclimitization? Logic would seem to say no.

Edit: Zip, at the time I was traveling pretty much contiuously, so I didn't have problems with jet lag. I just told myself I was in NY, London, Paris, LA, etc and got to what I needed to do. Didn't think it would be possible based on my first far-away destination (slept all day, wide awake all night), but it worked for me. Since I don't travel nearly as much now, I'm back to trying to adjust for the first few days, although it's not nearly as bad as that first trip.

Richard: I'm amazed the jet lag didn't make your Whitney trip miserable. I've seen a lot of postings from people who didn't sleep well the night before and felt exhausted and emotionally spent the entire time on tough climbs the next day. You just flew right through.

Must have been a nice surprise!

z

Ken ,here's an anecdotal single case of a pilot with migraines induced by combination of a drug and ascent above cabin altitude (equivalent pressure) of 6,000 ft, alleviated with descent. Must be some other examples out there. Harvey

<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9641408&query_hl=15&itool=pubmed_docsum">Altitude-induced migraine headache secondary to pravastatin: case report.</a>

Ken, here is another. Just the abstract, but it suggests the commonplace thought that some people are susceptible to just a few hrs at equvalent altitude of 8,000 ft in the aircraft cabin.

Obviously, if the medical definition of altitude illness is at 8,000, that does not mean that, say headache or nausea at 7,999 ft is not AMS. Less likely, but not impossible. Of course, cardiac and pulmonary patients may have flying restrictions or recommendation, but as for healthy hikeres there may be a subset who do not feel well after flying because it is mild AMS, just that it is not a well established diagnosis. You are right to bring it up. Hope this helps. Harvey
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=11989137&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum">Sickness at high altitude: a literature review.</a>

I start to notice the altitude in the manner of a little nausea and headache around Trail Crest, or about 13,500 feet. I take a couple ibuprofen with lunch, that helps a lot. My wife starts to feel it before Trail Camp, so that's below 10,000 for her. Unfortunately, that means she can't go with me on the annual trip.

Harvey, thanks for the interesting links!

Lived at sea level all my life, never had a headache due to altitude even though I have stayed an acclimation night only once. (stayed the night at the White Mountain entrance gate).

Otherwise altitude has affected my conditioning, breathing ability, and so on based on a lot of factors including nutrition, sleeping, hydration, weight of pack, clothes, temperatures, state of mind, etc.

Years ago I felt 10,000 feet at first. Now I don't feel the altitude until 12,000. But then I'm going slower now.

Walked a young 20 something off the switchbacks last week. He'd gone with his group about 3/4 the way, all rushing to see the sunrise. He'd run out of energy they continued. He had a slight headache, his eyes looked glazed, and though his speech was clear, I could tell he was measuring what he said carefully. He was obviously disoriented. Was this AMS? Possible, yet I think he was unprepared and had overexerted himself. He had said he had acclimated at the Portal for a night and had hiked around horseshoe meadows the days before. He felt better, but not whole when he neared Trail Camp.

around trail camp

I feel the altitude in increased percieved exertion starting at 5000 ft. It gets harder and harder as I go higher to maintain a given speed. But I guess I am lucky as I rarely get altitude sick even without acclimitization on whitney.
When I went up to Kilimanjaro I really noticed a difference at about 16k despite having over a week at altitude. RR

Generally speaking, if you drive from sea level and get out of the car to start hiking (without much elevation adjustment), you won't have much trouble until 9000-10,000 feet. After that altitude sickness, headache/ nausea/ flu light symptoms/ loss of appetite etc, start becoming a real issue.

I honestly doubt the average person would make it to 12300 foot Trail Camp or 12600 foot Iceberg Lake. Backpacking would be worse then dayhiking due to the extra weight carried.

Just around 12,000ft I notice the altitude a lot more. Between 13,000ft and 13,500ft it is like I hit a brick wall. It is there where I have to slow down to what seems like a ridiculously slow pace just so that I don't loose my breath. I can't tell the difference between 13,500ft and 14,500ft.

Assuming you are referring to the altitude-caused symptoms of headache, nausea, dizziness, "hitting the wall," etc., I can honestly say that I don't notice the altitude any more at 14k than I do at home, at 2k.

Because I pace myself from the minute I leave the Portal (going slower than I am capable of), my hiking speed is about the same the entire day.

Rob so you hike the same speed with the same effort at 14K as 2K? I don't have altitude sickness in General but it does slow me down.It slows the best alhletes in the world down. I'd love to see someone run up everest! RR

I live at approx. 140'. I usually feel a noticable difference between 10000' and 11000' wheather I an acclimated or not.

It does seem to make sense that the more you need oxygen because of exertion, the greater the chance that you will feel the effects of altitude sickness. Like Bob R. seemed to imply, not going too close to your maximum possible effort and feeling more comfortable during your hike may reduce the chance of altitude sickness. Of course this doesn't mean that heavy exertion alone at any altitude (e.g. sea level) will lead to altitude sickness. And it also doesn't mean that you won't get altitude sickness if you don't exert yourself much. It only means that if there is thin air and you haven't had time to acclimate, the chance of altitude sickness may increase because of the need for more oxygen with greater exertion.

I found when you reach trail crest the effects really start. Especially when you take a drink through your Camelback. I found I became dissy.

Thanks for starting this thread. It’s good to know that almost everyone feels the elevation hit between 12 and 13,000. I’m right in there. I’m usually fine until a little after Trail Camp (12,000 to 12,500); on the occasions when I camp at between 11,000 to 13,000 for three to four days/nights, I feel almost no problems at all up to 13,000 and sometimes no problems right up to the top at 14,497.

A couple of exceptions that I have personally experienced are:

Three years ago, I hadn’t hiked for about four months, then took my son and his friend to summit Shuteye Peak (near Yosemite), in the winter. It was a very cold day, and I really pushed it, and developed most of the symptoms of AMS at just under 8,000. It was an anomaly for me, and I don’t know all the factors that may have contributed to it. I went down to 7,000 and felt fine – tried to go back up, but started to get all the symptoms again.

The other time (two years ago), after working a 14-hour day, then driving home to pack, then driving the eight hours almost to the Barcroft Gate, then going back to Bishop to fix two flat tires (that is a very bad road) by buying two new tires, then back to Barcroft (another 6 hours), for a total of about 30 to 35 hours without sleep, I then proceeded to hike the 14 round-trip-miles doing White Mountain Peak, in extremely cold conditions (sub-zero on the summit) in order to acclimatize (I thought) for Whitney two days later. I believe I had a mild to moderate bout with hypothermia, (not to mention exhaustion) but no AMS, until I attempted Whitney the two days later. Then, I got sick at about 10,000 feet, and had most of the other AMS symptoms. I had to recover by staying at the Portal, resting for two days, then I was able to summit Whitney with no problems.

That’s two bouts with AMS over 36 years of backpacking, where I exceeded 11,000 feet at least 50 times.

I have a friend that has never been able to get past 9,000 feet without debilitating AMS symptoms.

I'd like to find out whether there is any physiological change that happens with aging that would make travel to altitude more problematic.

Up until this year, I had puked (almost a sure sign of AMS symptoms) three times in my climbing life:
- The very first time I climbed Whitney in '72 at Trail Camp (12,500').
- One time, when I pretty much drove straight through to a ski resort in Utah (8000-9000').
- On the descent from Langley, when I had driven straight to the trailhead to do a moonlight ascent.

There have been cases where I've felt symptoms on a lot of other occasions, but it wasn't a regular occurence.

For giggles, I once went up to 5000m in three days. I only had a minor headache on night three that was cured with an ibuprofen.

This year has been a completely differnt story. Almost every trip that has crossed 12,000' has caused me problems. I puked at Potluck Pass and have had severe headaches on nearly every trip this past summer. My last climb up Baldy also resulted in a headache.

(I think that I can state with certainty that it is not hydration related. I usually climb with at least 4 liters in the local mountains and water has not been a problem on any of the hikes/climbs in the Sierra.)

(I also tried Gingko prior to my OV to WP trip. Didn't work!)

Bob K and Bob R...
re: "not going too close to your maximum possible effort". Yep, stay below your AT (Anerobic Threshold).

Many sport enthusiasts talk about VO2max or MVO2 ( myocardial volume oxygen) but AT has more to do with sustainable activity all day long slogging up and down the mountain or running a marathon. AT occurs at heart rate, say 130 for you and me but 170 for Lance Armstrong or Ed Viesters, but MVO2 occurs at say, 200. Sort of like the torque on a lumbering diesel truck will pull a trailer up the grade more reliably in the long run than a Honda car at 7,000 rpm.

Richard, as for aging, I know people here like references to support statements, but.... there is written talk in the mountaineering literature that age is an actual advantage, up to a point of course. This applies not so much to the pure muscles extreme fast stuff, straight up and alpine ascents, but more to the long term plodding of high altitudes, say up to 20,000. I have seen some examples of this personally. I'll see if I can track down a good reference later. Harvey

for the "average joe (or jill) anerobic threshold is much too fast a pace to sustain a 12 hour climbing day, or even a 4-6 hour day at altitude. I've heard several experienced guides use a simple test: you shouldn't go any faster than allows you to have a conversation. If you're breathing too hard to talk, you probably will run out of gas long before the summit. I know that takes away the fun of going to a facility to have your VO2 max and AT tested, but you can still do that for fun.

The other point worth emphasizing is the high degree of variability in susceptibility to AMS even within an individualfrom one climb to the next. Richard P's post above is a good example of that. Clearly acclimitzation makes the biggest difference in how an individual will react to altitude each time. However, I've seen Everest climbers with a headache the first day of skiing at only 10,000 feet. Even Sir Edmund Hillary "hit the wall" and got sick at Everest base camp at one point.