Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Stove

I always opt for a stove---It may seem insignificant and trivial, but if you have a problem on the trail (or anywhere in the area, off the beaten path), you'll be glad you carried the extra 5 oz. stove so that you're better prepared. There are so many what if's, but here's a couple: What if your water purifier breaks, and you need to boil water? What if you get lost, hurt, etc, and you need an extra day or two of food? You'll be glad in both cases that you have the stove. Instead of worrying about 5 oz. of extra weight with the stove, leave something else behind that couldn't save your life.

Tommyboy

You are always free to carry your stove, but you can backup you filter with 0.5 oz. of tablets. If you need a real day or two of food thats 2 to 4 more pounds and a pot to cook it in and fuel. If you are to be ready for an extra day or two, what about shelter? What does shelter to survive/be comfortable weigh?

At some point you have to draw a line on the type of experience you are preparing for/willing to risk. For short challenging trips, the stove and the other assumptions required to make it useful become a pretty big line to cross. Experienced travelers may like to try to substitute an ounce of prevention for a pound of cure.

If I carried the -gear- to spend a inexpensive comfortable night at Trail Camp, I'd need to -spend- the night at Trail Camp.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

Dale,
In response to your opinion, I feel the line of reasoning that you're going down leads to a ton of problems in the back country. Do you leave a knife at home, since it weighs too much? Do you leave a lightweight sweater or jacket? What else do you leave based solely on weight? Think about the Mt. Hood guys---they left a LOT behind, since they were only doing a "short trip". You can't plan for every contingency, but there's a line between being prepared for a moderate "inconvenience" and going so lightweight that you're at risk.
You asked about the weight of shelter? Of course, it depends on the time of year/conditions when you're out there. In non-snow times, such as we were talking about, I constructed a tarp-tent that weights in at about 27 ozs. I have a dry place to stay/store gear, and it isn't too heavy. Plus it's kind of cool.
The extra food I bring doesn't come close to the 4 pounds that you mention. I'm not talking about being extravagant, but simply prepared. I'll usually have an extra hot chocolate, extra instant oatmeal, and a dehydrated dinner. Food for two days that combined might weigh 1 to 1 1/2 pounds. I would be glad for the extra sustenance if an emergency arose. But again, that's my choice.
How many times do we hear about hikers who have a problem, aren't prepared for any deviation from their "planned, short hike", and then get into serious trouble because they haven't planned accordingly. That's all I'm trying to say. Everyone can choose their own way to do it.

To me it isn't about the weight or speed or anything else like that..it just comes down to enjoying my time in the mountains. Most of the time I take my JetBoil because I really do enjoy a hot cocoa at night and some warm oatmeal (and another hot cocoa) when I wake up. Sipping hot cocoa as I pack up camp during those miserable frost covered mornings makes things a little better for me.

I don't hike for speed..and I don't hike for a suffer-fest...I hike because I enjoy being outdoors and part of that enjoyment is sipping a hot brew or even eating a steak cooked over a fire once every so often.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer regarding equipment..it is a highly personal thing I think...

Chris

McDonald's McGriddles rule! :p

Although I have not backpacked without a stove, I have overnighted many times in the Sierra without a shelter. I check the forecast the day I leave, and carry the tent in the car, but make the decision at the trail head.

As for water, you don't need a filter or even tablets -- you can find information in this board on where to find good water a number of places along the main Whitney trail.

...and on my next overnight, I'm going to consider those McGriddles!

Tommyboy

We all agree that everyone should be free to make and responsible for the consequences of their own tradeoffs on safety / experience / comfort. You certainly are aware of how you want to make yours and what the real weights are. Thank you for providing a more complete assessment on the board of the weights you are talking about when you say 5 oz stove.

Dale B. Dalrymple
http://dbdimages.com

PS
The first time I did Whitney was on the 42nd day of a hike where I averaged more than 2 pounds of dehydrated food a day and lost 19 pounds of body weight. Thats where I got my number for a real day's food. YMMV

Ron or Chris, I am assuming that when you take subway sandwiches and McDonald's McGriddles, you eat them the same day. Have you ever, spread them over a second day?

Thanks

Paul

One thing that led me to the cold option: I've noticed over the years, that my appetite at altitude is really different than at home. The nature of what I enjoy eating is very different, as well. It was such a ritual to have a cupa Joe every morning (or chocolate, or cider, or tea....tried them all), that I came to wonder if it really mattered. I know that there'd be those mornings that I was in a hurry, or for some reason could not take the time....and after 5 min of hiking, it didn't matter.

I've always been somewhat of a fan of Gen Yeager's philosophy: it's about austerity.
Of course, there are the two competing philosophies: How MUCH of civilization you can take into the wilderness, or how LITTLE.

Where the balance lies, is what we all have to determine for ourselves, and it certainly differs.

That takes care of the comfort argument.

The safety argument is a bit tougher. My observation is that people tend to substitute knowledge and experience, for "stuff". People who get out a LOT tend to have the time to experiment with different setups, try different gear, spend a lot of time looking at how others do things, and ask a lot of questions about "how might I do it better". People are often amazed that I carry little in the way of a first aid kit, drugs mostly. Well, I'm a walking first aid kit. I know how to "make do" with a lot of things, in a lot of situations. I'm prepared to improvise. Others with less experience in that area, should NOT go without, they don't know what to do and it would not be reasonable or safe.

Ken,

I'll 2nd your experience for stuff analogy. When I started backpacking 10 years ago I had a Gregory Palisade pack full with things hanging off of it for a weekend trip, now I can take an Osprey Aether 60 out for a week trip with room to spare in the pack bag.

I am big into comfort on the trail, which manifests itself in my sleep system. I utilize an air mattress, down jacket for a pillow and a warm bag, which I do not have supplement with clothing.

I am a firm believer in the adage you trade comfort and experience for a lower pack weight. This is why I am perplexed by neophytes to high elevation long distance hiking/backpacking wanting to shave ounces for their first trip up this mountain. To me, the overriding concern is and should always be safety. Yet, sooner or later we will get a ton of posts here, where can I rent crampons and ice axe so that I might charge up that 45* slope called the Chute and glissade down, never asking where they might acquire skills to use these tools effectively.

Paul - Yeah..I've brought Egg McMuffins or other McDonald's sandwiches and eaten them a day later if the temperatures are low enough. Obviously you have to keep them thawed out enough to eat (I thought Richard P was going to break his teeth on the pizza he brought up Whitney..but it was "cool"..not "frozen"..hehe..) The nice thing about McDonald's (or any fast food sandwich) is that they are ready-made, packed with fat and calories, and generally I find they taste better than much of what I could possibly make (with far less hassle).

Ken makes an interesting point about the wilderness experience being about the things he doesn't normally have at home (ie: a cup of coffee every morning). I don't drink coffee or hot cocoa at home...or eat Smores...so those are the things that make camping unique for me..the opportunity to indulge in those not often done pleasures. The other important thing I've found (and I'm not ultra experienced..I've only been over 10,000' on about 6 hiking trips) is that warm food is more often the food I will actually eat. Loss of appetite is a real factor the higher you go..and while dry food and bars are "OK" sometimes..if I take them with me and don't eat them..they are just as useless in weight (and energy) as a stove or fuel you don't use. I'd rather take the extra 16 oz. of stove and fuel and dig in to my food enthusiastically than force down something less appetizing. I can understand why people would forgo it though..it isn't like you can't survive without warm food. Heck..most of us could probably do with 3 or 4 days without eating..

Chris

Ken and Beach, I'd second the thought that appetite is different (or less) at altitude. I've never gone on a trip and ate all we took, despite year after year trimming our calories. Now down to about 1600 cal per person per day while backpacking and no prob. Can't do that in Himalayas or elsewhere if workload and weather conspire to waste you away, but in the benign summer Sierras, just travel light and travel far. If you sit around camp too long, you will just want to eat more and get fat just like at home. Harvey

Hello All
I will be trying a solar oven this summer at high
altitude to see what temps I can attain.
I usually bake in 3 by 4 foot ovens that with the right conditions reach temps of 350 degrees in 30 minutes.
My camping solar oven is an oven cooking bag with an oven thermometer, it is amazing to see what you can do with the sun!
Generally an oven made with cooking bags will reach 225 and 250 degrees.
I can bake a chicken breast and rice in 3 hours on the long side.
No fire.. not much weight, but useful only for when you have time in camp or for purifing water.
The best part is everything is more flavorful and tasty, did I forget free.
Carol