Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Need to vent - 6-11-05 on whitney

I mentioned this in another post but I like to post this for all to read.

My wife and I hiked to trail camp on Friday. There was a group of about eight 40+’ers at the flat spot below the toilet. There were three or four other small groups also in this area. We camped across on the rocks to the left (facing the mountain). As some know the area by the toilet becomes crowded because of the amount of flat space. This group seemed to have no respect for those around them but I guess this is common when you have a large group. Though out the day a few people commented on how we were smart to have camped where we were because of the noise from this group.

The next morning we left about an hour after this group for the summit at around 8am. All went well and we made the top at around 12pm. We only stayed on top for about 15 minutes with a cool group of people from San Francisco (I think). We started down ahead of this group just behind the only day hiker I saw who had his dog with him!!!

A little more then half way back to trail crest we came up to this guy that was looking very dodgy. I asked how he was doing and he said “how far to the summit” and then he almost fell over and I reached out to catch him. I told him there was no way he would make it in this condition. I explained that it was at least 1 hour from here and he should think about turning back. He said he did not feel good at all and did not know how to get down. He then asked if he could follow us down which for some reason made me very angry. I though how can this guy put this responsibility on me and where were the people that got him up here and why the “F***” did they leave him alone in the condition!!!!! He explained in very broken speech that he had a hard time seeing because of his glasses and he did not feel good. I asked if he had an ice axe and he turned to show it was strapped to his hydration pack. I then offered him some food which he took and then asked him to drink some of the water from his hydration pack. It seemed he did not even know he had water. I told him it was critical for him to drink. Then I asked him if understood the basic use of an ice axe and ran through how to glissade and self-arrest.

I am not so comfortable with what I said next but I told him “I will lead him to Trail Crest but I cannot be responsible for you and I cannot get you down the face”. I knew I had my wife to look out for.

We lead him back and helped past a few difficult snow areas. Just before the Trail Crest we stopped to bundle up of the glissade and I gave him a few pointers on how to use his axe and then move to the crest. He did not follow, I am embarrassed to say, but I felt a bit relieved. At this point there was little more I could do for him anyway.

We glissaded down and hiked back to our tent at trail camp. About an hour later he came staggering into trail camp and I felt so relieved. With shock I watched as he staggered by his large group without noticing them (I did not know he was with them at the time). Then one of his group yelled, “Hey we are over here – did you make it”. No one asked if he was ok they just went on about how they all made it. No one even came to help him. I cannot tell you the rage I felt as I watched this happen!!!!

I am a novice in snow climbing. I have done Whitney in summer and many hiking mountains like Half Dome, Clouds Rest, Mt. Huffman, Mt. Fuji and many other unknowns. I have never been so outraged by the actions of another group. This was straight out of “In to Thin Air” and changed how I view what happened in that story.

I don’t have a real moral or closing to this – I just needed to vent!

Dont be one of these people!

If you and your wife were doing OK, it would have been good for the two of you to slow your descent enough to keep an eye out for him. He might have done the same for you if conditions were reversed. When you got to Trail Camp, did you think about trying to get help? Maybe it would have been appropriate to zip down to the ranger station and let them know about this guy. It sounds like he might have been suffering a cerebral edema, which can be fatal.

Everyone is ultimately responsible for themself, but as much as possible, we are also responsible for other humans.

I'd be just as outraged. Just plain irresponsible on the part of the group to leave this guy out there by himself. Was this a guided group?

Two friends of mine and I plan on starting out from the Portal this Thursday with a summit attempt Friday. How were the conditions? I'm assuming ice axes/crampons still needed? Thanks.

I have uploaded photos from our trip so you can see the snow conditions from this weekend.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/share/view?i=EeANGbRo2ZtWjoQ&open=1&sm=1&sl=1

Yes crampons and ice axe were needed mainly for the face but I used crampons most of the way up from Lone Pine Lake and also going down.

Thanx for taking him back. My friend and I had just descended from Mt. Muir to the main trail when we ran into him with some people we met at Outpost Camp. He was confused, couldn't tell me which route he ascended, where he camped, definitely somewhat incoherent. He continued up with our new friends before we were ready to go. After thinking about it we decided to catch-up with him and try to assess his condition further, but we got side tracked when we ran into some other friends from the outdoorsclub.org. We never saw him again. I’m glad he’s okay.

Briangoo – As I mentioned I am embarrassed about how I handled the situation but I did what I did. This is in part why it is still bothering me now.

I am guessing you have not been on Whitney, right? The closest ranger station is in Lone Pine, which is a three-hour hike when well rested and a 30 minute drive. Then it is a 8-hour hike back to the top of the face.

If you look at the pictures or others posts you might understand that the face is steep and there is one glissade track and only one person can go at a time. This is what I explained to this guy. Also, I am a novice with snow climbing/hiking and should not be instructing others.

I will also point out that there were many people on the mountain and we did offer this man help. But the main point of my aggravation seems lost to you – he was on this mountain with a large group (~8 people). These people left this guy behind in this condition for me to deal with!

I will never be in this position due to the people I enter wilderness with are responsible and would never leave a person behind in this condition. Further more I would never push myself to this point.

Was this the guy up there with a loaded pack, cotton t-shirt and shorts on?

Thank you for sharing this story. It is good to be reminded members of our own group should never be left alone to fend for themselves. By doing so they put him and yourselves in potential danger.

I enjoyed your pictures. There is still a lot of snow up there for this time of year. It looked like there was no running water up at trail camp. Was it possible to use your ice axe to did a hole through the ice to get water?

Heather, there is a small creek running through trail camp. It wasn't frozen over, at least not at 9:00AM.

The guy with the dog had a day pack and shorts and thin long sleeve shirt but he was super human! He was on a day hike and I was half way up the face when he started and he got to the top the same time as us!!!

The guy that was feeling bad was wearing jacket and pants and had glacier glasses on with a hydration day pack.

BFrank,
Great pics! I have a question for you- I'm going up there in less than 2 weeks, and my wife and I are not really planning on summitting, as we did not realize there would be so much snow this year. But, from looking at your pictures, it doesn't seem as though there is anything that would not be manageable for us.
Out of the pictures that you have, are there any that you notice that are of more dangerous or steep sections with snow on them (or even without snow)? Which ones are they so I can look more closely at them?
Let me know. Thanks. I appreciate it.

You have time to learn the basics of crampons and ice axe and with these you can make the top.

The heat makes the snow soft so that it is not so technical. Clearly the most intimidating part is the face below trail crest (where the switch backs are). However there is a chance that in two weeks the switchbacks may become an option. Still all along the way you will face lots of snow. If you look at my pictures on page two it is clear which are on the face.

Find a place to rent them, read everything you can (freedom of the hills is the best book) if you have time take a class. If not try them the day before on the hike up to get used to some steep stuff. You just need to learn how to step for different terrain.

Most important is learning self belay, self-arrest and glissade with the ice axe. I saw people that had no clue make it so even if you read a little you would be ahead of them.

This is makeable and it would be a great experience for you. I saw take the next two weeks to get ready and go for it. Just understand you limits and if does not feel good be happy with how far you got - right now is so much more pretty then the normal summer time hike. It was a far more religious event for me then when I did this in the summer of 2001!!!

Hi! What an interesting story. Had something similar happen at Joshua Tree once.

What would you guess the conditions around the switchbacks will be like 5 weeks from now? We have permits for coming out over Whitney around then...if we can get there!!

some asked about guides. Professional Guiding is not allowed on the main Whitney trail by the USFS.

I think in five weeks the switchbacks will be fine maybe a little snow. Just watch the fourms for updates - if you look at my pictures there is still a ton of snow right now but parts of the switchbacks are already free of snow.

Hey, Thank you for posting your story. I totally sympathize. A couple of years ago I invited someone to go with myself and several other friends. Having summited on three previous occasions I decided at the Portal that I was just not in condition to do the trek without 1) being miserable and 2) being a possible liability for the others. The next afternoon, two of the guys returned without my friend. They had "lost" him. A major thunderstorm was rolling in. I was pissed. I hot footed it up to Mirror Lake, anxiously asking everyone on the trail if they'd seen my friend. No one had. I was playing out scenarios in my head. I didn't want to call out a rescue unnecessarily, but on the other hand, my friend was missing.

Finally, here he came, non chalantly strolling down the trail. Turns out he couldn't keep up, was feeling rather sick and instead of telling anyone (they should have waited!) just decided to spend the night off by himself.

No one from this group could understand why I was pissed. The response was, "well everything turned out alright." Though the trail up to the summit seems like a major highway, people continue to underestimate the effects of altitude, how easy it is to sprain an ankle, get separated without supplies (I have) take a mis turn in a snowfield and end up on the wrong side of the mountain (I have), etc.

If anyone doubts the respect required, just ask Doug to tell you a few stories. I don't relish the idea of having to share my sleeping bag, warm clothes, rationed food or water with some idiot who is not prepared or informed, thank you very much.

This may P.O. one or two regulars on this board, but one culprit in the regular flow of unprepared bozos may be the abundance of people on this, perhaps the premier Mt. Whitney resource (and in many other places as well), who repeatedly characterize the hike as "easy". No one doubts that it's not much of a challenge to those who devote their lives to cardio fitness and endurance sports, but most of the people who wind up needing help on the trail are not in that category, and to characterize Whitney as easy is a great disservice to those who are seeking honest advice. (Herein lies the difference between self-centered arrogance and leadership.)

For the "average fit" person it is still a significant physical and mental challenge, on top of the physical risks associated with the harsh environment, and this fact needs to be made abundantly clear in spite of the emboldening crowds that march up and down the trail every day. The best defense against accidents looking for a place to happen on the trail is the honest and ego-free exchange of information and advice that is a hallmark of the Whitney experience. Some bozos may not be interested in your opinion, but without them, we wouldn't have the Darwin Awards to enrich our lives, would we?

>>>> "Find a place to rent them, read everything you can (freedom of the hills is the best book) if you have time take a class. If not try them the day before on the hike up to get used to some steep stuff. You just need to learn how to step for different terrain.

Most important is learning self belay, self-arrest and glissade with the ice axe. I saw people that had no clue make it so even if you read a little you would be ahead of them." <<<<

bfrank - Thanks for helping the poor guy out - that is what high altitude mountaineering is about. However, I think that your advice quoted above is very bad. Inexperienced climbers can't learn how to safely use this equipment on a dangerous place like Whitney by reading about it in a book. Either take a class or go up with someone who can show you how to use it correctly. Otherwise, wait until conditions improve and you don't need crampons/ice ax.

Sam- you are right! I guess it is for each person to understand there skill and limits. However, the quoted example is how I learned but reading the post above your makes me remember that everyone is different and should use great care not to be like the group that I started this thread about.

Go hike the Himalayas before you start pontificating about “high altitude mountaineering.” Give me a break. The guy was sick, but not dying or lost, and there were plenty of other people on the trail. Glad you led him to the glissade, which wasn’t dangerous, more like a fun ride on a waterslide. Whitney is high, but not that high, and much safer on the tourist route.