Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Smile, you're on North Fork camera!

Finally made it (albeit halfway on a day hike) up the North Fork Mountaineer's Route, a tale in itself, but I noticed something that I haven't seen comment about on this board.

Not too far up the Mountaineer's Route from the split off the main trail is a poop bag dispenser, and not too far from there is a black box strapped to a tree, south of the trail, not far from the small fern forest on the right (north).

Examination of this black box revealed the following: an infrared proximity "trip wire," a lens, and a counter. The box admits the results of the photographs are beamed somewhere via radio wave. I was photo No.8 on July 2.

So here are some (perhaps) pertinent questions:

1. Why does the government (this obviously was strapped on by the NFS) want my photo on North Fork trail?

2. What will the NFS do with this information?

Answers:

a) web cam
b) the NFS compares the photos to overnight permits and sends out rangers to write tickets
c) search and rescue, but mostly search and write tickets
d) gather information on how many people are destroying the MR, require daily permits, search and write tickets
e) Doug needs to know how many burgers to flip around 5 p.m. or so

Well, at least I smiled pretty

I guess I need to remember to wave next time I pass that spot. I came thisclose to taking some of those bags as a gag for co workers....

Big Brother is, sadly enough, getting omnipresent. Fast forward 10 years. Can anyone imagine the government's presence on the mountain then?

These little black boxes are used by the USFS to collect data regarding trail usage/traffic. Unless there is a visible camera attached to the box, all it is doing is counting your number each time you cross the beam. I would not throw a fit about this. Wilderness stewards are keeping count in order to gauge impact on the land. Not a bad thing in my opinion. Monitoring cameras in the wilderness, however, is another issue.

I figured that was the reason. Another way is to pay someone to stay up there and count the number of people passing, but that would be more costly. I certainly have no problem with the FS knowing how many people go up which trail, but it does feel a little strange to have some black box looking at you. Same with the video cameras at traffic signals and toll road entrances.

I suspect that, now that the word is out, some will walk back and forth in front of the sensor repeatedly, biasing the number on the high side. Actually, this wouldn't be all bad - "showing" that vast quantities of visitors have little impact on wilderness resources. Of course, some may choose to walk around it, biasing it to the down side.

But I am reminded of something we used to do in high school, after VW Bugs came out. Seems like there used to be quite a few rubber lines stretched across roads back then, to assess traffic for the same reasons as here. Whenever we came across one, my friends and I would stop the car, lift the front end and place it on the other side of the rubber line. Then drive the rear wheels across. We always got quite a chuckle, causing those folks who analyzed the data to wonder about all those half-cars driving on the roads.

Dave,
My concern would be not with the present but with the future. I do not believe they will stop with these simple counters. History has shown that once the government starts something, regardless of need, they tend to prolong it indefinately. I believe this will morph into a live feed camera within three years. Beyond that, they may create an artificial "ranger" where one has to display a bar coded permit before hiking further up North Fork. It may sound fantastic and conspirical, but today they are already using camera "cops" to mail out tickets to those who allegedly run stop lights. Does anyone really think they are going to stop this form of "progress".

Incidentally, has anyone hiking the PCT seen my wife? We had a meaningless fight over minor things such as weight loss and extra martial affairs and I have been unable to locate her since.

live feed camera... artificial ranger....

Too damn funny. Like you couldn't just find a way to hike around. Maybe they'll build a brick wall surrounding the Whitney Zone, complete with gun turrets.

"Mr. Schwarzenegger, TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!!!"

Please - stop giving them ideas... Especially the artifical ranger idea. It's technically feasible and would save money. As soon as I read that I thought, "Oh boy, I can actually imagine that one."

Now, if they want to make a profit, why not install it at the summit with one of those cameras that you see at amusement parks that will take your photo. There would be a tag line at the bottom: "Get your Offical Mount Whitney Summit Photo! Only $30.00 for per 5 x 7 print. Pick it up at the Whitney Portal Store. We hold all photos for 24 hours."

Hey that's not a bad idea Tucker! They certainly need the money.

Instead of spending money on these high tech gizmos though, I think they should use it instead toward the ongoing toilet problem. They probably have these counting devices installed there too.

A certain degree of cynicism toward the government is healthy, I suppose. Perhaps, in the folly of my youth, I have yet to see the government as the Dark Side. I am always interested in talking with people who have an eternal enmity for the government, especially when it comes to land management. So, why don't we throw that out: talk seriously about why you think the land management agencies/bureaus are stepping on your toes. Are they a "necessary evil?" Do you *really* believe the government wants to keep you from hiking Mount Whitney via NF? What interests do the FEDS have in mind? In a land of mixed uses, what level of monitoring is acceptable in order to simultaneous protect the land and allow it to be freely enjoyed by visitors from all over the world?

1,500 word max. Grades will be posted 7/12/04. Please include a thesis sentence.

The illuminati did it

Just thought I might point out that the original post specifically says:

"The box admits the results of the PHOTOGRAPHS are beamed somewhere via radio wave. I was photo No.8 on July 2."

(emphasis mine)

According to the original poster, it IS taking actual photographs. Seems like someone concluded that it probably wasn't, and the rest of the posts followed along that line of thought.

...

It's a camera. If you don't believe me, go look for yourself. Smile if you aren't already when you arrive.

Though by now the NFS has moved it or disguised it (I doubt it, just kidding). I'm pretty sure it's just there to monitor trail use. I would hate to see the Mountaineer's Route squelched in any way, the trail is as steep as it gets and will kill off any desire of the average hiker to point almost straight up and say "onward!" before they get to the camera in the first place.

For being an "unmaintained trail" you really can't get lost, at least not for very long, and I didn't see any signs of abuse like annoying litter you find on the main trail. The scant few people (7 in all on a full-day trip) I encountered July 2 were all courteous and helpful and just plain having fun, which is the only reason to go up there in the first place.

Well, he certainly said it, but people say a lot of things on this message board, especially when they make a good story.

My experience with infared trail counters is that although these contraptions often do have a photo capability when a camera is attached, they are seldom used because people steal the camera. There is indeed a reader that counts numbers, and there is indeed an "eye," but really it is an infared beam transmitter that simply counts passerby.

But I could be wrong-- maybe the government has indeed decided that it would somehow be useful to have pictures of NF hikers. Maybe they want to check your ethnicity (to reference another thread)!

I just don't think it's responsible to spread conspiracy theories based on hearsay.

Oh, well there you had it from Hike of your Life, it IS a camera! Strike a pose!

Reading threads like this are not only educational (when appropriate), but are also far more entertaining than anything on TV.

Bob R - Your half-car story made my evening! From my reading your posts over the past few years, you sir, are the quintissential storyteller. I always enjoy reading your posts.

RockyTop - Heard your missing wife already finshed her walk to Canada, what with less weight and not much stuff left to carry.

CaT

Hi HOYL... I was curious about your trip up the MR. Your post sounded like your trip was "eventful". I'm assuming that when you say "Finally made it (albeit halfway on a day hike) up the North Fork Mountaineer's Route" that this was your first trip up this route?

This August will be my first time up this route. I've been reading everything I can find on the route from past posts, and printed lots of pictures and maps. I guess I'm curious if you had any trouble following the trail or did you have someone with you that had been up before? Thanks!

I think everyone can get over the 1984 paranoia. The FS is merely doing a headcount I'll bet so they can begin charging a fee to do the MR....which I'll pay just for the privilige of being there.

rosabella,

Doug Sr. at the store is a great resource for directions on negociating the Mtneer's Route. Ask him the day before you go (that's what I did.)

Ellen