Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board bear can technicality

I'm doing the JMT in a couple months, and this just occurred to me.

I'm carrying a bear can. I have a friend meeting me en route at Kearsarge Pass, with food supplies for both of us to do the last leg of the trail.

Is some ranger going to fine her $5K for carrying all that food without a bear can??? It would be ridiculous to make her buy and carry a 2nd one, when all she has to do is hike up to the pass and meet me with my empty one.

Too many details to worry about...

You only need a bear can if you're staying overnight in bear country, so she will be fine if she is just dayhiking up to give you a reload. Otherwise, everyone hiking with a granola bar would need a bear can.

Mark, it sounds like she will be joining you for the rest of the hike, right? As long as you can get both of your food supply in your canister, she won't need to carry an additional BRC.

P.S. Have a great hike!!

Intersting question. In fact, you can hike up this trail without a bear can, if your plan is to camp in locations with bear boxes.

Another interesting question is the permit situation. I had EXACTLY the same situation a couple years back, and assumed that there would be no problem with a person joining me on my permit from up north. Wrong. Even though there was an extra spot on our Whitney permit, a ranger who encountered my friend was unhappy that she did not have a separate permit for starting at Onion Valley. He didn't make her turn around, as he stated that he knew that there were extra spots for that day. However, I'd make sure she has a copy of your permit confirmation (you won't have the permit itself until you hit the trail).

It always seemed like a strange situation, because what would a person re-supplying do? I guess they'd have a copy of their thru permit.

Interesting take on the permits. I was going to just get one JMT permit, and she was going to get an entrance permit from Onion Valley and an exit permit for Whitney. If she can't get an exit permit for Whitney then i was just going to apply for an additional entire-JMT permit for her to use as an exit permit. Does this make sense?

I knew you didnt need a can for day hikes, but my worry would be a ranger looking at her entrance permit that says "5 days" and seeing no can and having a fit. I guess if i copy to her the JMT permit(s), that might help.

thanks for the input everyone.

Going over Kearsarge overnight requires a bear canister as does exiting the Main Mt. Whitney Trail. She will also need her own permit.

Unless you've already got the permit for your girlfriend to enter the trail from Onion Valley, there are probably none left, other than taking your chances with the walk-up permits available.

So MarvV, do just what you thought - get two permits at Yosemite for a JMT thru-hike, and if she gets stopped going over Kearsarge Pass, she can just tell them that she went in to Independence to pick up a re-supply box at the post office; PCT'ers do it all the time.

She can make it over Kearsarge Pass to meet up with you easily in a day. As long as you can get all the food for both of you in your canister, you don't need a second.

Markv,

Check the attached URL. It provides information about Wlderness Permit availability for Yosemite trailheads.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/rptFullTrailheadDates.htm

Yosemite will issue a reservation letter which states you need to present it at when you arrive at the wilderness station to get your permit. Last year they didn't ask for my letter but did ask for my identification. I aam guessing but I would wager she will need to appear in person to obtain a permit unless you can secure a second one from the TH you will starting from on the same date.

I completely understand your dilemma but I am also disappointed to hear someone suggest using a reservation that in effect will not be used in it's entirety and may ultimate eliminate the opportunity for someone that may really want to access your designated TH. I hope I'm wrong and that the date you desire is available and that the demand for it is not there.

Good luck!

M.L. - I understand and (for the most part) agree with the permit structure, but it's not a perfect system. MarkV IS starting his thru-hike in Yosemite; his partner is planning on joining him on the trail. This is not just a case of someone trying to get around a three-day hike permit up the Whitney Trail.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but this is how I feel.

Unless someone can cite me something, one does NOT need a bear can, either going over Kearsarge, nor going down the main Whitney trail, unless one is camping on the segments from the trailhead to the respective pass. For example, one could start in Onion Valley, and camp that nite at Keasarge lakes, where there are two bear lockers, or at Junction Meadow, where there are also lockers, and along the route, just finish up by hiking out after the climb of Whitney. No can needed.

Not saying that is how I'd do it, but it IS possible.

good god. i'm finessing a summer work tour of a half dozen cities across the country, i just got word that i'm moving to Hawaii and have 6 days to make the move, i'm in the middle of a tax audit, and it turns out getting a *****ing permit for my friend (hey when did she become my GIRLfriend anyway?) to join me on the trail is the most COMPLICATED issue of all.

ugh. i guess first things first is to find out if she can just get the normal legal permit.

thanks for the ideas...i'll be sure to ask for more.

Markv,

I know it is frustrating, but without the permit system it would be chaos on some trails (e.g. Happy Isles to Little Yosmeite Valley).

Here is another link that shows the quotas for each Eastside entry into Inyo National Forest including Onion Vally and it indicates which trails require an approved bear canister. Many trails do not require them so form your own conclusion.

Hope it all works out for you.

Something to keep in mind on this bear container thing...There are only two agencies allowed to search or make you unload your pack. Thats law inforcemant (i.e. police, sheriff, CHP, ect.)
or a Dept of Fish and Game Warden. Thats basically
any gun toting badge. A parks ranger is only allowed to inquire and state the rules. Having said all this, if you were to cause an incident involving a bear, and weren't packing a vault, then you would be done. A fine would the least of your problems. The only fine situations that I've heard of in the Whitney zone were after there was an incident. Mostly parking lot stuff.

Sorry, here is the URL.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/permits_res/quotas.html

GMAN,
You state that any gun-toting badge can ask you to unload the pack and produce your bear can. Does this apply to gun-totin Rangers- the YPS ones found at Cathedral Lakes, or also found up towards Voglesang? Twice I have encountered them and both times they demanded to see mine. According to you, is this legal?

Ken, Just the other day I posted "to cannister or not to cannister" about the Rae Lakes Loop where there are bear boxes every 5 miles or so. Mark and Scott M. both replied that I must carry a cannister in spite of the ubiquitous boxes. The SEKI web page for Rae Lakes sez that the bear boxes are strictly for JMT & PCT hikers, which is silly since three quarters of the loop doesn't coincide with those routes. My feeling is that the web pages are probably out of date. I guess I need to call the ranger station if I want the final word, but perhaps I'll carry a cannister just to avoid sorting out the conflicting info. -Sarah

I read a little further on the SEKI web site: http://www.nps.gov/seki/snrm/wildlife/food_storage.htm

The fine is for not storing food in compliance with regulations, but the way I read it, using bear boxes is in compliance. I'm still not sure I understand the regulation, but from the sounds of it, the lockers (permanent bear boxes) aren't for use by people entering at certain trailheads??? I guess I still need to call.

*************************************

Special Backcountry Restrictions

SEKI-approved bear-resistant food storage containers with the capacity to store all food are required from the Friday of Memorial Day Weekend through October 31 at the following locations:

* Rae Lakes Loop through Paradise Valley to Woods Creek crossing, through the Rae Lakes Basin and the 60 Lakes Basin into the Charlotte Lake area, and south along the Pacific Crest Trail to Forester Pass. Also included are the Bubbs Creek drainage and associated trails and cross-country areas from Kearsarge Lakes and Center Basin to Cedar Grove, and all other drainages feeding Bubbs Creek east of, and including East Creek. This also extends south to the Kings-Kern Divide.
* Dusy Basin which includes all camp areas from Bishop Pass to the junction with the John Muir Trail in LeConte Canyon and all cross-country areas in Dusy Basin and Palisades Basin.

Parties traveling through the Rae Lakes area on trips not beginning or ending at Cedar Grove, Kearsarge Pass, Baxter Pass, or Sawmill Pass must either use SEKI-approved bear-resistant food storage containers or camp at sites with lockers.

Markv,

Not sure if you saw this link on another thread but it will tell you which dates are open/full on the various trailheads entering the Inyo National Forest.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/permits_res/other_avail.html

There are openings for Kearsarge Pass so you may have some luck getting a permit for your friend.

Once again, good luck.

Mark,
My son and I just did a refresher hunter's safety class, and according to both instructors, the only agents that are allowed to conduct spot searches of any kind are law enforcement and the game warden. They're statement was "any agency that carries a firearm can conduct searches". (This was a way of remembering the answer for the certification test). Now maybe some parks rangers carry guns, I don't think I've ever noticed any of them packing heat, but its very possible and they may have all the right in the world to verify. Don't get me wrong, I don't think its worth the chance, observe they're rules whether you like it or not. But we do have a right to privacy, especially out in the back country. Personally, I don't mind carrying so much, but I'm sick and tired of every year having to purchase the latest 'approved' bear container. We now have a Garcia, a Bear Vault and an Ursack in our collection. I like the Ursack best, and I believe it to be the best compromise of weight/space/affectiveness. These companies should be obligated to buy back any of thier products that are unapproved after advertising thier acceptance by the forrestry service. But, its whoever the parks decision makers are investing with, that drives the requirement. Thats just my opinion...
Just be safe and keep steppin.

GMAN,
I agree that it is not worth the hastle of refusing to comply with any YPS ranger order, whether he has a gun or not, but...
On the occasion at Cathedral Lakes, the ranger had one and an attitude to match. I have a Bearikade so no real problem. Even though it makes a distinct bulge in my Gregory, he still wanted me to stop, unpack and see it in the open. The other time, about 3 miles below Voglesang HSC, a pimpled 19 year-old snot with a uniform but no gun, stopped me on the trail and demanded to see it, and then waited for me to show it, while he lectured me on how I was responsible for killing bears. Even though I carry the can reluctantly, I had it- up to here with the punk. I was about to "show it" to him with prejudice, but I just wanted to find out what my legal rights were before I did something I might regret. I don't mind the asking as much as the gestapo attitude.