Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Smaller Bear Can

I hate to harp on this but lets talk about smaller bear cans. The bear can still won't / doesn't hold everything that we should/ ought to put in it, and we continue use other means to deal with our food issues. We are all guilty of either hanging the rest, (which still works), building cairns, or sleeping with a few items. Admit it, we all do it, its effective, and it will continue to be so in the future. Unfortunately, Bear Cans are soon to be mandatory in all the Sierra- the writing is on the wall. Personally I dislike them, but I am a pragmatic realist, and it is certain that I will soon have to carry one, if I want to continue to backpack. However, at this point there is no law that says how big the bear can has to be, just that I have to carry one. So, for anybody listening out there, Please,I need a Smaller Bear Can. Perhaps a Bearikade 1/2 - 2/3, or a Garcia Mini. It could be sold under the guise of a One-Day-Can for short overnighters - Like the main trail. The great part of this is that it would solve so many problems. First, it would satisfy Ranger Bob when he stops me on the trail. "You have a bear can? Yup!". Secondly, around camp, it would be nice to have a safe place for the dinner, camp snacks, crystall lite, cosmetics, and small crud that the small critters always seem to get into ( the stuff I sleep with). I still plan to hang the rest anyway- (Either over a cliff or by tree)- Go figure.. Thirdly, it would be MANAGABLE. Since the back-breaking, 3 pound, impossible to pack, overweight, oversize, not practical Bear Can is a extraneous to most of us anyway on longer trips (see above), and we have to carry one, - Please just give me a legal One pound version, which I could conceivably use on my 9 day trips.

I feel your pain. They already make the container you're asking for in the URSACK, but the current model is not approved (yet). It's lightweight and doesn't add any more bulk than a stuff sack that you would use regardless. The old model was approved for a while and then taken off the list fortuantely, before I bought two and sold my Garcias :-) My wife and I are ultralight hikers and the thought of stuffing the Garcia canister in my Golite backpack for our High Sierrra Trail trek is making me nauseous. Given the extent of the problem and the pace that the government moves on issues I don't see much hope for the immediate future. They already have a product that works so why would they care that much if they could find a product that would be better for hikers. The bears aren't the problem it's the slob hikers that failed to follow good wilderness practices. The same ones that leave trash on the trail and foul the water sources. Why encourage more of them to enter the backcountry?

I think a compromise is one way to go. If out as a group, one could have the required bear can, but supplemental Ursacks. You get the idea that it is illegal to have an Ursack in one's possession....NOT.

I agree, they're a pain in the @$$, but they DO work. My buddies and I usually share the loads, (i.e. one w. the can and one w/ the tent & stove.) That works great IF you aren't going solo. Also, I REFUSE to use the Garcia cans anymore. I really prefer to rent the <a href=http://wild-ideas.net/index2.html>Bearikade</a> or I may purchase of of the new. lighter <a href=http://bearvault.com/> Bearvaults.</a>

That being said, if you DO hear of a smaller, lighter can, LET ME KNOW!!!!,

A half to 5/8 can would be great but when I spoke to a principle at Bear Vault it was like this was the first time he heard it. I strip all the packaging from my food and don't need anything all that big when I go solo for a weekend.

I own both an Ursack and Garcia. The thoughs of buying a Bear Vault and it's minimal weight saving and Bearikade at $190 do not appeal to me but if its one or the other I'll go for the Bearikade, kicking and screaming.

Bill

I believe the problem with smaller cans is that they could be carried off by bears if they can get their jaws around it.

It can't get too small or a big bear will be able to get jaws around it and crush it. However something the same diameter and half the height of the Garcria might make a satisfactory short trip or supplemental cannister.

Mike

Yup, that's exactly what I want. The same diameter but 1/2 the size. It would work wonders for me, be able to satisfy all my needs, and placate the powers that be. Under 2 pounds would be acceptable. Who do I talk to?

Smaller beer cans? Why would you want a smaller beer can? I would go no smaller than 12oz. but just be sure not to carry to many, more weight.

Never mind. I see now, bear not beer.

Sorry

BearVault is offering a free lid upgrade to all existing BV100 owners. The new lid is 1 ounce lighter than the BV100 lid. Details are at bearvault.com/product notices.

At the same location there is also lubrication information if you feel your BearVault lid does not turn smoothly enough.

thanks and happy hiking.

There's two issues I see here:

1. The regs say your food must be properly stored, and in certain areas that means in a bear can. This means having a bear can of some size and storing the rest of the food in some other manner is not acceptable.

2. A smaller bear can might be nice if the trip does not require the space of a standard can. The problem here is most of the weight is in the ends and cap of the can. The can still needs to be at least as long as the diameter (8+ inches), so the weight savings would be negligible. The volume savings for a small pack might be nice, though. However, my BearVault fits fine in my GVPGear G4 pack, and even adds a bit of rigidity to the pack.

I don't like carrying a bear can, either. I do like sleeping well knowing my food is safe, though.

I also became frustrated with the oversize and weight of standard approved bear canisters, namely the Garcia.
I contacted the folks at Bearikade and had them make me a reduced size Bearikade which I currently use and really like, as it is signifacantly lighter. It is the standard Bearikade 9" diameter and is 8 1/2" tall. This is approx. 3 to 4 inches shorter than their weekender model. They do not want to make a unit smaller than this due to the bite radius potential of a bear. Which could result in a canister failing and thereby jepordize their approval with the park service and others. They total weight of my unit is 1 LB. 10 OZ. Give them a call or send them an email. They have always been very helpful.

Bearikade will make a custom 8" can. I had one made summer 2003. Works great in my Gregory Advent. Used the can for a 5+ day trek of the JMT.

To the original poster (if he/she is still reading):

What are you carrying that exceeds the capacity of a normal sized bear can???? If you are hanging, sleeping, hiding so many scented items, STAY FAR, FAR AWAY FROM ME OR ANY OTHER BACKPACKER!!! I DO NOT WANT MY SLEEP INTERRUPTED BY A BEAR TRYING FOR YOUR SCENTED OVERSIZED STASH.

As other posters have pointed out, the normal sized bear cans are too big for lightweight backpackers who choose not to bring the entire kitchen and bathroom to the backcountry. The 2/3 Berikade is for lightweight backpackers, not those who are trying to avoid getting a ticket from the ranger.

Trailboy,
So tell me, how do you go out on a 10 day- 2 week trip, solo and handle your personal food situation. Do you carry 2 bear cans? Do you put everything at night in the can- How?, or do you sleep with a few items or hang the others? Maybe you just car camp. I do like the YELLING though.

I've managed to fit 9 days food in my garcia cannister by packaging everying in ziploc bags. I hate carrying the extra weight, but after some bear encounters that spooked me, I'm glad to have my food in a cannister away from my tent.

I read somewhere that they gave the ur-sack to bears in a zoo (I think) to test it, and the bears got into it. I think people were also tying them to trees to prevent them from being carried off, but when animals pulled on the sacks, the bark was stripped off the trees.

wbtravis5152
> A half to 5/8 can would be great but when I
> spoke to a principle at Bear Vault it was like
> this was the first time he heard it. I strip
> all the packaging from my food and don't need
> anything all that big when I go solo for a
> weekend.
Read this thread (about a third of the way down):
http://forums.backpacker.com/thread.jspa?threadID=32769&tstart=0

and the posting by Jamie Hogan, owner (I believe but maybe inventor) of BearVault from Dec 2003. It certainly is NOT the first time that this request has come to BearVault's attention :

JamieHogan
Posted: Dec 26, 2003 11:24 AM
The Whitney Portal Store asked for just such a canister; one about 1/2 size. The problem is how large a market for that item exists; it is clearly much smaller than the full size canister market. We can look into this at some future date, though right now we are concentrating on getting the BearVault product out into people's hands.

I was in the Portal Store on Saturday and all I saw was Garcia Canisters.

An engineering friend of mind doesn't like the design of the Bear Vault, both old and new, because it is a threaded product. His position is if water gets into the threads and freezes you would have to pry lid off, which is what we had to do with one made with the ring design.

Bill

I noticed the Bear Vault at REI last week and played with one. I had trouble getting the lid off. Maybe I'm not as limber as I could be (I read the overweight thread with lots of thought to the 60 pounds I dropped to achieve a normal weight/height ratio before doing Whitney last summer) but tucking the bear vault between the boots and bending over and trying to open the threaded lid was not that easy. I had some problems getting it past the "stop" (detent) or locking bumps.

But then again, you don't have to carry around a quarter to open the garcia or bearicade

Fred, a few of the original BV200 lids may be a bit tight, which is why we are offering some food grade lubricant to anyone who asks for it. Details are on the web page at bearvault.com. A few drops on the lid threads should last the whole season. The lid should turn smoothly and with little effort. The new lids are pre-lubed and the fit is looser so this is not an issue now.
As for the threads being frozen shut, the lid overlaps the threads, which is why the BearVault is rainproof. I don't know how water would get up under the lid in normal backpacking conditions. With the Garcia first the rain could get inside and wet the contents from the lid being recessed and then the frozen rain could seal the lid shut unless the canister was upside down, in which case you could get debris between the lid and canister. This is one reason we made the BearVault rainproof.