Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board acclimatization - how long does it last?

I've read a fair amount in the forums on the value of acclimatization and have followed it with successful results. But here is a different question I have.

Let's say I climb to 10-11K as a practice climb to acclimatize for the real climb to Whitney. If my Whitney climb is on August 1, how long before that could I do the practice climb. I am assuming that over time you lose the 'acclimatization' you have gained.

if you aren't sure how the altitude will treat you on whitney, I hope you aren't biting off more than you can chew on your kilamanjaro trip.

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babusahib
Member
Member # 1278

posted March 10, 2004 07:37 PM
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I am arranging a trip to Mt Kilimanjaro this September. Am looking for anyone interested. Have a total of 4 in the party so far.

FYI - Mt Kilimanjaro is the highest peak in Africa, and stands 19,344 ft above sea level.

Email me if interested in additional details.

Praveen (p.bhatia@comcast.net)
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Posts: 2 | Registered: Aug 2003 | IP: Logged

My question was hypothetical.

I have done Whitney 3 times already, including 1 solo. Doing it again this year to prepare for Mt Kili.

I suggest doing your (last) practice hike the day before you head for Lone Pine and then hang out at the campground by the Portal or the first one on the trail. Do another altitude stay the day before that, if you're doing Whitney in one day. Otherwise you can acclimatize your second night on the trail in camp at 12000 ft. and summit on day 3. Still it's no guarantee someone in your group won't get a nice headache. I like to hike and camp at Tuolomne meadows or Saddlebag lake by Yosemite for some altitude (and attitude) adjustment. Kilimanjaro sounds great but it's out of my neighborhood.

OK Now I see it was a hypothetical Q. Iv'e never tested the duration of one altitude hike prior to an ascent. Sounds like an experiment, so now could you tell me how youve acclimatized prior to your Whitney trips and if you've summited each time.

I summited each time.

This is what I remember from last time.
Night 1 - at Tioga Pass, Yosemite (about 9K)
Night 2 - Whitney Portal (about 8+K)
Night 3 - Trail Camp (12K)
Summited the next day and returned to Portal.

Medically speaking, your red blood cells (RBC) count increases to compensate for lower oxygen at higher altitude. More RBC count means more oxygen that can be carried to your organs/muscles. When you return to lower altitudes, your RBC count starts to fall. I am curious how long your RBC count stays high after you return.

I have noticed an increase in my cardio strength for 3 to 4 days at 1000ft after spending 4 days above 11,000ft. I also have a minor strength increase for a few days ( pumping iron). This could all be in my head but it consistantly happens trip after trip.

Being in the Phoenix area, my Whitney acclimatization hike is almost invariably Humphreys Peak (12,633 feet). I do it as a wholly unnecessary overnight backpack, spending the night halfway up at about 10,800 feet before summiting the next morning. I may be defying some medical sensibility, but it seems to me I feel beneficial effects from this acclimatization for a week or so, in terms of cardiovascular performance. Which is good, because I don't think my knees would stand up to Humphreys and Whitney back to back!

This is an interesting question, especially for those of us flatlanders who like to get up into the high mountains on back-to-back weekends.

This was the only online source I could find that said anything about how long it takes to "de-acclimatize": http://63.195.57.90/acclimatize_7.html

He says that you de-acclimatize at the same rate the you acclimatize. I interpret that to mean that if it takes you 3 days to get comfortable at 12K, then it will take 3 days at low altitude before you need to re-acclimitize to 12K.

Here's another good page on altitude: http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm

It also really depends on your personal body type and pysiological conditioning. Men like Ed Viesters do not need to aclimitize as long(or carry O2) because their bodies naturally process oxygen faster. Personally I've also done trips where I've gone from sea level(San Diego) to the summit of a 14er in less than 36 hours without headache or any pain. So I just think it depends, though in my experience staying up at altitude for a full day before your hike(at least 24 hours) is usually sufficient to deter altitude sickness. Granted you stay very well hydrated, which tends to be a lot of people's problem.
Eric J Lee

I've never seen a real scientific study of the question that you asked, but the rule of thumb in mountaineering circles is that acclimitization lasts about half as long as the time spent at altitude. Obviously that rule of thumb has a flaw in that 2 years at 10,000 feet will not confer 1 year of acclimitization, but I think 2 weeks at altitude will give you a weeks worth.

BTW, you will have plenty of time to acclimitize while you climb Kili if you take the 5 day route (that route spends 3 days between 10,000 and 12,500 feet). On the three day route, you will not, which is why less than half the people on that route summit while the percentage on the 5 day route is about 75%.

The half-life of a red blood cell is ~55 days. So when you build up your hematocrit while at altitude (it starts going up after 2-4 days at altitude), you will carry that increase for several weeks.

I talked to a doctor doing some research on White Mountain this past summer. I asked essentially the same question. My question concerned donating blood right after a climb to altitude. I was told that when going back down to low altitude the body starts to get rid of the extra red blood cells quickly and acclimitization doesn't last long. Basically if I donated the next day the red count would be basically the same as if I hadn't gone up. But that the more one goes to altitude the quicker the body reacts to the change and starts producing the extra red blood cells. These are general comments and each persons physiology is unique. The group doing the research was from U.C. Davis.

The statement that red blood cell count drops quickly could create a lot of debate. What about the "sleep high, train low" theory that some coaches preach? Essentially, a type of blood boosting. If cell count drops rapidly, the benefits would disappear while travelling to a low altitude event.

Regarding adaptation: I've had conversations with a number of climbers and the consensus seems to be that our bodies seem to know what's coming (due to the fact that we've been to altitude so many times) as we move to higher altitudes, so the symtoms of AMS don't occur at the rate one would expect (although this isn't universal).

This idea should be much easier to test these days with the altitude tents that pro cyclists (Armstrong among them) and other endurance athletes use. Simply use the tent for a length of time, then come out and test the blood to see how fast the hematocrit level drops. One such tent is called the CAT Hatch (sells for like $10-12K!)

Richard:

You have the technique reversed - it is train high, sleep low. Look at Everest expeditions, they climb up to the next higher camp, then come back down to sleep. That is because their bodies acclimatize (of which red blood cell count increases is only one part, others are a shift in the oxygen association/dissociation curve, increase in blood volume, increase in heart stroke volume, increased vascularization, increased VO2 max and more) to the higher altitude, but going lower gives your body a chance to build back up in the richer oxygen environment.

Doing a quick scan of training literature, the consensus is that the main effects of acclimatization reverse after 2-3 weeks.

Sierra,

We're talking two completely different concepts here. For climbers, it's climb high, sleep low, a well known concept for 50+ years (maybe even a hundred). But several years ago, coaches/trainers for elite athletes started preaching that rather that stay/train at altitude, they should sleep high (or simulate altitude with a sleeping chamber - I believe it's hypobaric), and train at low altitude (believing that a sea level maximum output training would be more effective).

Hmmm...so the above posts include a variety of different observations. Some say acclimatization drains away very quickly at low altitudes, and at least one says it can last 2-3 weeks. So is it reasonable to feel that my acclimatization from 24 hours over 9000 feet should last for a week or more? Or that at least it should make it possible to re-acclimatize much more quickly when I go the Whitney a week later?

Richard Piotrowski makes a good point. One reason for confusion is that elite endurance athletes try to benefit from altitude training for performances which are almost always at or near sea level, while climbers often do their thing at high altitudes. Furthermore, the advice for runners and the like used to be to train at altitude, but the current wisdon is sleep high/train low. Clearly, that is rather poor advice for a high altitude climber.

I know -- there is no new content in this post -- I'm just restating what Richard already said rather clearly.

Some things are worth repeating.

Jeffery:

>>> "So is it reasonable to feel that my acclimatization from 24 hours over 9000 feet should last for a week or more?"

I would say that the answer is no. In 24 hours at high altitude, your body has just barely started the changes described in detail previously. By a week after that 24 hour adjustment period, you will have lost all effects.