Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Whitney vs Rainer

Fond fond memories of our summit last September on Whtney. Eny input on Rainer as time of year best to attempt etc.. Thanks

I think this subject was touched on before but I'll add my $0.2.

The best time to do Ranier is when the winter snow's have ceased and the more typical banana belt weather pattern has set in. This is usually in May, making June the best month to climb.The snow has consolidated a little but hasn't receded so much that rocks are littering the trail.
Weather should be a secondary concern though, Mt Whitney is no where near as tough as Mt Ranier. It's typical to find people who have just "conquered" the easy route on Mt.Whitney and who think they should now move on to bigger and better things.So, hey, why not do Ranier,right? Well, the two mountains do not compare, at all! If you think you want to move onto bigger and better things work your way up the progression chart.At least do Shasta first, if you think Shasta is hard you won't have fun on Ranier.Try Mt Hood or the Three Sisters or any of the other Cascade mountains.

Or if you want to be sheephearded to the top of Ranier in a cattle train manner sign up with RMI so you can conquer the mountain in true American style.

As was just mentioned, the two mountains do not compare other then both being over 14,000 feet.

Whitney, at least in "normal" hiking conditions, is just that, a hike. It is over a trail and is pretty much one step after the other. It is also incredibly well-graded, as in the angle.

Mt Rainier, my neighborhood, is a serious glacier climb. You need to know how to handle a rope, deal with potential crevasse issues including jumping, avoiding and seriously, rescue, route finding (altho, that can sometimes be done by following the trench), white out conditions. Crevasses can also be hidden so you have to be alert (but as said, there are better or worse times for climbing so that the roofs over crevasses are firm and "safe" or open and visible)

You need more gear including the ropes, biners, prussics, harness and crampons. You need heavy boots.

Being in a rope team has its own challenges. Picture walking up a slope attached to others, possibly one in front and another in back. Now the first person reaches level ground, they pick up their pace naturally. You are still slogging up a slope and pull back on the rope to slow them down. The person behind is even slower and so your pace has to accommodate everyone on the darn rope. Individualism does not work on a climbing rope. And frankly, taking a leak is a major issue (G)

When I did it we had to jump a wide crevasse and had to climb a vertical snow wall about 10 or 12 feet. All while roped and aware of the others. We needed to prepare for someone falling in on the jump by being in arrest position. None of these are issues when HIKING Mt Whitney.

The continuous snow walking can be fatiguing as it requires kicking steps or following steps placed by someone taller or shorter than you. Or the snow is slushy and you lose half a step sliding back down.

All in all, climbing Mt Rainier is a serious endeavor altho I would not call hiking Mt Whitney a walk in the park either. It is a long way and the altitude takes its toll. Rainier has all of that and then the glacier aspect.

But it was rewarding those almost 25 years ago (sigh) and I do keep thinking about doing it again. I've been up Whitney 3 times. High Sierra Trail 30 or so years ago. Muir Trail from Piute Pass about 11 years ago and last summer. Whitney I can do alone. Rainier takes a group and for me, a group that I am comfortable with - I led our team of 4 back then (two teams of two) only in that I was the organizer but it was a group effort and it took all of us.

But with proper background, gear and training, it definitely can be done.

I've wanted to do Rainier all my life, but realize I won't ever do it. In 1999, I took a two-day seminar on climbing Rainier, run by the guys that are professional guides on Rainier. I'm a hiker, not a mountaineer, and navigating through glacier ice fields just isn't my bag. The MR route to Whitney is about as "technical" (heavy quotations), as I want to get. Rainier a technical climb, hazardous, and it simply isn't hiking, it's many notches above in rigor, fortitude and expertise.

I would definitely do Shasta before Rainier as a natural progression on going from easy to more difficult. On Shasta you have to watch out for falling rocks, people have been seriously hurt from boulders being inadvertently stirred up from hikers above them.

As a vicarious Rainier climber, I bought a great book, "Mt. Rainier Climbing Guide" by Stanley L. Friedman. You can buy it on Amazon.com for $12, I'd definitely read that before attempting it.

Hey Fred,
I am so jealous that you have done the JMT from Piute Pass. My first High Sierra experience as a child was a week long base camp trip in Humphreys Basin. That area of the Sierra holds a special place in my memories, whenever I think of doing a backpack or day hike in the Southern Sierra, Piute Pass and Humphreys Basin are always first on my list.

I've always wanted to take the Piute Pass Trail all the way down to, what is it, Hutchinson Meadow, and then turn south along the Glacier Divide to see the grand view of Evolution Valley staring back at me.

How long did it take you to do this section of the JMT down to Whitney? Did you turn around and come back the same way or hike out to Whitney Portal. Someday I'll do this hike, it really is a great area, probably the nicest in the Sierra Nevada.

Ranier would be much harder, since you do most of it in the snow. Having been interested in Rainier I have listened carefully about the all day affair from Camp Muir (10000 feet) up the south side through the Ingraham-Disappointment cleaver to the summit. Certainly a very tough day. Weather on Rainier is also a big factor, with the mountain creating its own weather. You have to be prepared for bad weather at all times.

So I wouldn't compare a Whitney hike in the summer on a dry trail with Mt. Ranier. A more fair comparison would be to climb Whitney early in the season (April-Early May) when it has snow above 8500 feet. Then you would be able to offer a more fair comparison. Mt Rainier is Mountaineering....Whitney is the summer is a long hike at high elevation.

To answer your original question, summer is generally considered the best time of year for climbing Rainier unless you want a more intense winter climbing experience. The weather on Rainier can be good or bad any time of year and changes a great deal from one day to the next. I've been hunkered down in a terrible blizzard hoping that our tent wouldn't blow down for days, then had it suddenly stop and clear up at midnight in time to start up for a perfect climb. The opposite also happens.

Unless you are an experienced climber, I would suggest going up with an experienced Rainier guide. You can go with RMI, though they usually take large groups which would take a lot of fun out of it from my perspective. You can also go to Feathered Friends or REI in Seattle and ask about good independent guides. As others have said, it is a big, tough mountain. It is definitely NOT for inexperienced climbers and the climbing rangers at camp Muir (~11,000 feet) usually review your equipment and experience before letting you go up. I've seen them turn people back who were not prepared. There have been several deaths and major injuries in the past few years and they are much more cautious about letting people get above their experience and preparation. If you do go, it is one of the most beautiful climbs and mountains in the world. On a clear night, the view as you climb while the sun slowly rises (twilight lasts for hours - you are quite far north) is unbelievable.

Mt. Rainier is generally considered to be one of the toughest endurance climbs in the lower 48 states. Going with a guided service, such as RMI, is strongly recommended for anyone lacking the skill, experience or partners to safely do such a challenging climb on heavily glaciated terrain possessing multiple objective hazards. Here are some comparative stats for you:

Rainier vs. Whitney
--------------------
Distance: 18 miles vs. 22 miles round trip
Start: 5,450’ vs. 8,361’
Summit Elevation: 14,411’ vs. 14,497’
Total Elevation Gain: 9,661 vs. 6,136’
Average Grade: 996’/mile vs. 557’/mile
Steepness: 20-40 degrees vs. ____ <5 degrees?
Terrain: Snow/Ice/Glacier/Rock/Scree vs. graded rock trail
Equipment Required for Rainier: Ice Axe, Crampons, Plastic Boots, Harness, Rope, Transponder, + crevasse rescue gear
Typical Pack Weight: 45-55 lbs vs. 10-20 lbs
Difficulty Grade: II-III vs. Grade I
Climbing Season: May-Aug vs. May/June-Oct
Climbing Permit: Required for both
Objective Hazards for Rainier: Rock and Ice Fall, Avalanche, Crevasse, Weather
Time to Climb: 2 days* vs. 1-2 days for Whitney

* If you go on a guided climb, add 1 day for Climbing School - All climbers must pass Climbing School as a prerequisite to joining a guided summit climb. Plan on 12-18 hours on summit day, while carrying a heavy pack.

How does climbing Mt. Rainer compare to climbing Mt. Blanc? I understand that conditions are quite similar.

I've done both Mt. Blanc and Rainier and it is somewhat difficult to compare them. In terms of experience level, you should either be an experienced snow/ice climber and/or go with an experienced guide for both. The route finding on Mt. Blanc can be harder because there usually are fewer climbers creating a clear path. Mt. Blanc is over 1000 feet taller and the mountain itself is much more massive than Rainier, so it is physically more challenging. It depends which hut you begin the Mt. Blanc summit bid from, but the route we took was much harder and longer than the Disappointment Cleaver route on Rainier. I've heard that it is much easier if you can get into the the hut more on the main route (we couldn't). The climbs on both mountains on the easiest route are similar if all goes well, just a very long high altitude hike on snow, though Rainier has one technical section (it has a fixed rope) and Mt. Blanc none. Weather on Mt. Blanc is much like Rainier - changes fast and can be severe at any time. The view from the summit of Mt. Blanc across all of the near-by alps (including Eiger, Jungfrau and Matterhorn) is amazing and very different from the isolated ppeak of Rainier.

I am looking to climb Rainier this year with some friends. There are lots of guiding companies out there, with a wide range of prices and durations. For example, RMI's summit climb is 3 days (including a 1 day school) for about $800, while I saw another guiding outfit offer a summit climb for 5 days and at over $1500. Surprisingly, it seems that most of the more expensive guide companies are full for this year. It seems that due to regulatory constraints they can only accomodate a certain number of climbers per year.

FYI:

<a href=http://piotrowski.smugmug.com/Washington%20Mountains/12396>Mt. Rainier Climb - July 2003</a>

I'm not nearly as conservative (no slight intended; it much better to be cautious) as most of the people who post to this board, so I'm not going to add any comments as to the ease/difficulty of climbing Mt. Rainier by the standard route.

Last summer the climbing weather in Washington was excellent from July through mid-October.

Rainier vs Whitney: Coming from NE (mt washington and its dangerous winter weather as my playground)I have alot of respect for the ferocious weather systems Rainier can brew up, and obviously it is a very different mountain due to its relative position with very different types of obstacles. Glaciers are serious business. If one compares the moderate to easy graded 11 mile one way Mt. Whitney trail (the highway) in summer to any route on heavily glaciated Rainier in summer, it simply is not even worthy of comparison. However, if one were to actually pick the very hardest lines on each of these 14ers, putting snow & ice vs snow & ice, (getting off the Mt Whitney Trail in winter) I would have to argue that Whitney has some extremely difficult and highly technical lines in winter. The very steep upper sections of the mountaineers route in winter can be loaded with lots and lots of unconsolidated snow, making it very trecherous. Serious accidents have happened here by even by experienced snow and ice climbers. And thats not even the hardest line. The east face of whitney and the keeler needle in winter is very forboding. In the end, you have to admit that nearly every mountain has a feature, a quality about it that you have to give respect to. Even Mt. Washington here in the east. Its only about 6300 feet high. Sounds laughable, a certain walk-up any day you'd like. Think again. With several days this winter with deadly 110 below wind chill and the avalanching ravines, its no walk in the park ... After all, at only 6300 feet, she still holds the highest wind speed ever recorded on earth at 234 mph! My overall verdict at the subject at hand: Rainier wins due to its constant snow/ice and crevasse conditions...but Whitney must be respected in its own right.

NE Climber-

My one experience on Mt. Washington was as hard as anything that I've experienced on Whitney or Rainier: a four pitch vertical ice climb up Pinnacle Gulley, a hike on very hard snow/ice in (what felt like) hurricane force winds to the summit (felt like we were leaning forward 45 degress into the wind to stay upright), then a ski run down Tuckerman's Ravine. It took every bit of technical skill you could muster and my adrenal glands were running on empty by the end. It may not be tall, but I don't know if I could have made it if it was 14,000'.

I think if you really want to summit Rainier you can do it , just hire a guide because is very dangerous climb . I really recommend RMI they are the best , I summit last year in august3 ,JULY was 100% summit whith RMI guides. Before Rainier I have climb whithey (mr route and main trail) and nothing else , went and climb Rainier and now I just come back from Mexico climb Orizaba and Izta , thanks to my climb on Rainier I feel in love with the sport.I do recommend buy the RMI video is really good and you get a good idea of the climb and talk a lot above the clothes to uses. also get in good shape is not a easy climb .I was the only woman in the group and was the best climb ,been in hut with 50 onother o more climbers was fun.I have to go do shasta now. good luck

Minor point, but I believe the record wind speed at Mt. Washington is 231 mph.

From www.mountwashington.org/bigwind:

"During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record."

CaT

For those interested in Rainier, there is a discussion board active for that area, in much the same way as this is for Whitney. It is located in the forum section of www.cascadeclimbers.com, where there is a separate section for Rainier. A lot of info, and my friend Mike Gauthier, the Chief Climbing Ranger posts information and answers questions occasionally....sort of the Washington version of Bob R!

Speaking of Gator, I just see that Men's Journal just published a list of 25 toughest guys in America, and he was listed 4th!
http://www.mensjournal.com/feature/0403/toughguys.html

Have any of you climbed Ranier in one day? I understand it makes for a long and challenging day, but "weather permitting" is often accomplished. Also, will the rangers allow climbers to continue past their checkpoint with lite equipment.

I had the good fortune to climb Mt. Washington in October 1999, in less-than-ideal conditions. It was a revelation how it could be so calm down low, and so wild on top. The story is too long for this forum, but it's interesting and I can share it on the trail some day.

I think most of us wonder how this 6288' mountain can have such terrible weather compared to the relative giants in the Sierra. I recall reading somewhere that it is because the Mt. Washington area is often at the confluence of three jet streams. But sometimes I misremember things, so I looked briefly on the net, trying to verify it one way or another. I couldn't, but did find this interesting web site: http://www.mountwashington.com/weather/ It is a vivid reminder of how lucky we are in the Sierra!