Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Grand Canyon in April

I know it's little bit off topic...but...planning to do a rim-rim-rim hike in end of April...Any permit issues? How about snow and weather?

Thanks in advance.

I have done it in March before. There was still a lot of snow at the top on both sides. I would suggest crampons. April could still have some icy snow in the shaded areas. You don't want to slip on any of the higher portions of these trails. It will be your last one. We hiked through a tunnel of snow just as we were cresting the top on the South Rim.
Permits should not be a problem for a rim to rim. Good Luck! It's beautiful...

I know overnight camping permits can be hard to get for April having done it two years in a row without advanced permits. Also getting a camp site on the rim was not simple either - I was in overflow.

As for weather, I agree with what was posted. There can be ice/snow at the top.

As an example of the fickle weather I had. It was the earliest Tucson had hit over 100 on April 18th or so. I was up at the Canyon a few days later and it was very warm and it was 103F down at the river. Two days later, hikng out it was snow flurrying from Indian Gardens to the rim and the next morning it was an absolutely frigid 18F at the rim.

A few years back, we just hiked an hour or so down the So. Kaibab trail, in March. It was icy in all the shady spots, but we had little kids hiking with us and it was fine. The next year, I went down the No. Kaibab trail and up the Bright Angel trail, on a backpack permit (May 15, I believe). No snow except up high on the North rim. I crossed water a couple of times, due to runoff, but it was fine. Weather at the bottom felt perfect, even a bit too warm. This is a heavier snow year, so you may have much more than that.

You don't need a permit doing Rim to Rim to Rim at any time, as long as you're not camping anywhere and you're doing it in one day. The problem you'll encounter is the snow conditions on the North Kaibab on the North Rim. Late April *might* be OK (notice I stress "might"), but in early April you'll encounter some deep snow drifts, almost certainly on the North Kaibab. There are no services open on the North Rim until May 15, everything is closed down. So don't expect lodging, food or anything else until you hit Jacob Lake, 42 miles away.

Rim to Rim to Rim is the greatest day hike I've ever done and I do it three times a year. You'll love it, but I would be very concerned about snow conditions above Roaring Springs on the N. Kaibab trail. If you wait until mid-May, you're much safer. Good luck!

Wow Candance, 3 times a year? I'm impressed. Just once in a lifetime is quite an accomplishment, but 3 times a year is remarkable!

Candace, what dates/times in the year do you recommend doing the Rim to Rim to Rim?

Hi I went with a group several weeks ago down the canyon and snow and ice on the Bright Angel for about a mile??? we came up the shorter trail less snow only about the upper 500', I also did the North Rim trail in May many years ago and ice was on the trail so taking the extra gear for the short distance would be a factor, but don't wait till August either!!! Some day I will tell the story about the rim to rim trip and a guy I worked with some years later,we were proud of our time until we heard his "many trip" rrr in under 15 hours. Since the topic is open ,I have heard reports of 9 hour trips now ???
The trip we did in May changed my outlook on hiking, gear, food and rate of travel, We past a couple walking down from the North Rim carring a gallon milk jug of water, paper sacks and not much clothing for back-up, So I thought they would do a mile or so and turn back, later as we stopped for a rest they pasted us and we chatted , we took off again at our rapid rate and passed them again , this went on to the bottom of the Canyon I knew they must stop soon and head back up, We took a lunch break mid way on the bottom, they passed us talking now about the flowers etc. and drinking from the milk jug eating out of the paper bags, well as the story goes this way to the South Rim they finished the hike in less time than it took us , This couple was in their late 60's and from that day I learned the basics of "COE" conservation of energy, drink, eat, go slow and go all day.

First, some clarification: I have only done Rim to Rim to Rim (48 miles total) in one day *once* in my life. When I said I do R-R-R three times a year, I mean I go from the North Rim to the South Rim in one day, sleep at the South Rim and then the next morning go South Rim to North Rim. That's considerably easier than a one day trek, obviously.

I will probably never do the one day Rim to Rim to Rim again, it's just too brutal and debilitating. You go through 6 different climactic zones in the Grand Canyon and you can go from temps of 30 degrees at the North Rim to 110 degrees in the box before Phantom Ranch. The dryness of the air also wrecks havoc with your body; no matter how much you hydrate, you're still running on empty after awhile.

Up until 2002 they had a sanctioned race in May, but then the NPS banned it, so they do the race informally. The NPS banned it because too many people were becoming ill and had to be rescued. Every hellicopter rescue in the canyon costs the person a minimum of $2100. They just thought it was too dangerous, even though I never saw anyone attempt this who didn't appear to be very, very fit.

It took me 22.15 hours to do the 48 miles and I am not an ultramarathoner and had no experience at these types of distances. It was the hardest physical thing I've ever done. I encourage everyone to do it because the sense of accomplishment you get is indescribable, but it really is painful and dangerous (because of the heat), unless you do it at the right time of year.

A one day Rim to Rim to Rim should ONLY be done between the dates of Oct. 15-Nov. 15. I would never do it in May, when many do it. It's frequently 110 degrees in May in the inner canyon. In mid-October it still is 100 degrees around Cottonwood Campground. As long as there is no snow and the road to the North Rim to still open, I would recommend early November. It's true, there's less daylight, but you'll be in the dark a lot of the way no matter when you do it.

I think Doug is right about a 9 hour roundtrip time, which blows me away. Anyone who can do this hike/run in that time is a hero. I will say that the hunger you'll have after doing it will consume you. When I was finished, I ate 2 extra large pizzas, 3 club sandwiches and 6 ice cream drumsticks in about 20 minutes, then continued pigging out for days.

Adventurehiking.com has a great description of the R-R-R hike, those guys have done it twice, I believe. I've known people who have hiked all over the world and many think the R-R-R hike is one of their greatest and most memorable experiences. It really is a special thing to do, but only in the cooler months.

Here's the URL to Adventurehiking's Rim to Rim to Rim jaunts:

http://adventurehiking.com/The%20Hikes/GrandCanyon_AZ/GrandCanyon_AZ.htm

Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I've done the one day r-r-r twice and just wanted to add one note to Candace's last post. I think that it can also be safely done in March and April as well, conditions permitting. That is, no deep snow at the north rim.

Also, the two times I did it I went down the South Kaibab, making the total distance roughly 44 miles and 18-20 hours (for me). If you are looking to add a few miles to make it an even 50 descend the BA and hike out to Plateau Point and back.

Good hiking,
Dan

Dan adds a good point. R-R-R via the South Kaibab trail is about 6 miles less roundtrip and that sure makes a difference as the hike/run ends. The "official" R-R-R is always down the Bright Angel Trail, which adds apprx. 6 miles to the whole distance. I know purists of this endeavor think going down the South Kaibab and back up the S. Kaibab is "cheating," but hey... it's still one heckuva accomplishment no matter which way you do it.

About the SK... Both times I did it I only descended the SK (ascended the BA) and I would definitely recommend AGAINST hiking up the SK as the end of a r-r-r for three reasons:

1. no water on the trail;

2. after 17 hrs of hiking (for me) the benches at the Indian Garden, 3 mi and 1.5 mi resthouses were quite welcome. In fact, I was so beat on one of the trips that I took a short nap;

3. many times you aren't allowed to park at the SK so you won't be near your car/hotel/etc.

Candace, I thought that the "official" route included the trip to Plateau Point to make it 50 miles, is that true? I've never talked to anyone that was involved with anyone who participated during the days of sanctioning.

Dan, I've never done the official race in May, but I've known others who have. The official race did not include Plateau Point. BTW, a nice day hike from the South Rim is to Plateau Point and back, a 13.3 mile roundtriper. Now is a good time to hike in the canyon, the mules still aren't going down to Phantom Ranch till May.

Thank you Candace and Dan for the information. Maybe I'll attempt it this year if I'm not wrecked from the JMT. Happy hiking.

mj

Early November is also a fairly popular time that ultra runners gather to run the R2R2R.