Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Dilemma, please help

I just cancelled my trip on 9/20 to 9/21 but my friend from CT is angry at me and is going to hike Whitney himself. He is not properly trained for this hike. I told him when I won the lottery that he needs to hike the White Mts in NH. He did not. In addition, he had shown many areas of concern. In mid-August, he failed to complete the last leg of Half Dome after the switchbacks because of his fear of heights and his lack of experience (which is none). Okay, no backpacking experience.

His only other experience is meager. He hiked Mt Fuji, 12000 ft but he showed poor judgment. He told me that he did it without sleeping for 18 hours. I say that was dangerous, he said that was the only way to see the sunrise (like the other dumbass tourists). He hiked Jacinto from tram with me in Sept 2006.

He tried to convince me that this trip will turn out fine. He said that a person in tennis shoes did it. A ten year old did it. A person with a liter bottle did it. These examples are absolutely ridiculous. I would never be party to such stupidity. Of course, the person in tennis shoes could have done the Mt 20 times. The person with the liter bottle is an ultra runner. Oh, he mentioned to me that he backpacked as a Boy Scout with a 42 lbs pack only in CT. That fact did not instill any confidence in me.

Other examples of his poor judgment: I told him numerous times that the only way to prepare for this hike is to hike.
As the team leader, I made the decision to cancel this hike this Monday because he was not ready. I said the mountain will always be there. His response, he spent $1000, airline ticket and he is going to hike the mountain. Further, he said he is only going to do it once and that’s it. He is very status conscious and I do not see a true love of hiking. He purchased the top of line gear and has never really tested it before this coming hike.

When I said the trip is cancelled, he wanted to hike with strangers. Now, he plans to do it himself. With no winter gear.

Another example: He feels that "In my opinion, the biggest risk on this hike is your poor physical conditioning. Going on a handful of hikes over several months is not a replacement for a cross training routine that includes several hours of high heart rate training several days per week." Crosstraining means running and squats in CT. Most likely, on flat CT terrain.

My training:
The past 7 weekends I have hiked Mt Baldy 3x (twice the steepest 4k gain in 4 miles, once the longest 8miles 6k gain) and hiked Half Dome 2x. That is 4 weekend hikes and one weekday totaling 65 miles, 26000 gain. In the other 2 weekends, I biked 60 miles total (I got tired of hiking every weekend). This past weekend I slept at Horseshoe Meadows because I couldn’t do a hike the day before (13hr work day). I have 9 years of hiking/backpacking experience, hiked Gorgonio 2x (1 winter and 1 slept at peak), Jacinto (tram) winter hiked in NH, Applachian trail-Adams, Washington, Galehead to Layefette, Greylock, Santa Monica Mts, San Gabriel Mts, etc. The third of my party is more experienced and agreed to my assessment.

This CT friend has never backpacked before. His gear is untested. He have never slept at above 10k. His judgment scares the hell out of me. His level of comfort is absolutely not close to my level of comfort. He has shown poor judgment for a very intelligent person. He is a book worm but he has no practical experience. He reads all the reviews of gear. He said he read this Portal website but he does not understand it.
I did not want to be party with an unprepared person (Whitney is no place for a newbie), he failed to follow my instructions to do hikes in the White Mts, he is afraid of heights on ledges, he failed to complete the last leg of Half Dome, so I cancelled the hike even when I want to do it, prepared to do it, spent money, and did everything on my part.

All these facts are building up to a scenario that I do not want to chance. I value his friendship and his life so I cancelled. He says I should be a friend and hike it with him. I say he should be a friend and listen to me. He is a danger to himself and to his party he is with. He is a danger to others on the MT He says he can turn back if he feels AMS, based on the above facts, I don't it. He will very quickly get out of his comfort zone.

Should he be hiking this mountain?

He will be on Sept 19 to 21. His name is Ed, 6'1 blonde Polish guy. Please look out for him. My 10 yr friendship with him is over but his safety is still my concern.

Everything can turn out fine but everything can turn out bad.

Wow, quite a story and, I hope, one that doesn't end poorly.

Your concerns are admirable, but it sounds like the ol' 'you can lead a horse to water' adage. You've made recommendations to your friend, and he decided not to follow through. Sounds like a fair number of my patients! You've put this community on alert, and that's a good start, but we can't make this guy stay at the trailhead, either. Ultimately, the decisions are his.

I suppose all you can do at this point is ask him to call you when he comes off the mountain, whenever that is. While your friendship may be over, he may still respect your concern for him and his safety.

Good luck.

-Laura

Should I have been a friend and gone with him? I mean it'll probably, hopefully turn out fine. Other dumba$$ have done the Mt.

The folks I fear the most are the ones that are about 90% of the way prepared. They'll be able to push through things and get themselves into real trouble.

The picture you paint is of a person who is not motivated by the right things.....and as such, when he gets that miserable altitude headache, and he will, he will say "the hell with this!", because he does not really love the experience of backpacking and sleeping on the ground, pooping in a bag, etc. The first thunderclap 2,000 feet above will NOT be an adventure, it will be a frightening ordeal to be escaped.

My experience has been that these type of folks, with no one to coach them along, who they will feel embarrassed by backing down in front of, are pretty self limited. The mountain has pretty good defenses against those who don't respect her. It appears that the truly dangerous conditions have not quite set up yet, so it is not likely to be a dangerous situation, simply a miserable and uncomfortable one.

You've used your best judgement, nothing more you can do.

i'm sure he'll be fine. climbers get a little carried away with gear and training and blah blah blah and forget about heart and will and determination.

btw - i was one of those "jackasses" who stayed up all night to watch the sunrise on fuji (actually i napped for 2 hours). when you are tough you can stay up for a long time.

It sounds like you had a superficial friendship and that he may have been using you as a pawn to get what he wanted. It certainly would not be the first time that situations like that have happened. You would have not been a true friend if you were not free to be yourself without manipulation or guilt. If you believe that what he is doing is wrong, you should stand your ground.

As I have noted on other posts, I have run into a number of people who "have always wanted to to Whitney." On my first trip, I came down late because the person developed leg cramps (and refused to take ibuprofen). On my second trip, another person was airlifted out of Trail Camp. Since then, I use those examples whenever people bring up the subject in casual conversation.

He spent $1000 to fly out here and took the time off, maybe you could have offered to do some other "So Cal" type stuff instead.

Or maybe hike San G. instead. Possibly challenge him to 'prove' he's ready by hiking San G. first, then if he proves he is, then next year you agree not to question him on his prepardness. Not that you can't get into just as much trouble on San G.

Maybe combine some hiking with some other stuff he might want to do as long as he's in California.

Or, just go. If he's afraid of heights, he may not even make it much past Mirror Lake... Then the responsibility for aborting the hike is on him, not you.

I agree with FujiGuy and Ken - it's amazing how far one can go fueled merely by ignorance and motivation. Sometimes a little bit of knowledge can cause real trouble.

You never know how someone will react to the altitude. Ed might get lucky and not feel more than slight altitude issues. If he goes slow and steady he might succeed.

It is sad to see a friendship ended over advice not taken. I have learned over the years that you can't really change people, and you can't make them do things.

A lot of people take inexperienced beginner hikers up the main trail. And some of them make it the first time.

My hiking friend has never been able to go up the Half Dome cables, but has summitted Whitney multiple times.

Jason, you have really prepared for Whitney. I hate to see you throw it all away. Most people, even the ones who make it to the top, don't prepare like that.

Now this is a post I can really identify with because:

I've hiked Whitney in tennis shoes. (and all cotton)
I've often been called a dumbass.
I used to have to fly back from Hawaii to hike Whitney.

On some levels you are both right. He is right when he thinks he can probably make it. It is possible to put common sense aside and will yourself to the top with luck on your side.

And you are very correct to be concerned that he is on his way to being another notch in Whitney's belt.

"Back in the day" I didn't have this message board or a lot of experience. I just went out and did things and learned the hard way. My 1st 2 or 3 trips to Whitney I was just lucky. I had a lot more hikes under my belt than your friend, but I still was lucky that something bad didn't happen. I also got a lot of help on the trail, especially that 1st year.

When I would fly back we would use Half Dome/Clouds Rest as a tune up hike. If your buddy turned around on Half Dome out of fear of heights, Whitney might be a little more challenging for him.

I say; if he is really your buddy and you want to give it a try, make the trip. You might have enough common sense for the both of you. In the end, if he's a grown man, there isn't much you can do. You can't hold his hand all the way up if you think he's ready or if you think he isn't.

Based on the info you posted, I would bet he turns around at the cables. Just a guess..................................DUG

Fuji Guy,

Sorry to imply you are one. You had your nap at least. I am sure you were in shape and hiked other mountains before that. To my memory, that was his first.

I guess tourists feel to get the most out of a vacation, they do something that is not advisable under other circumstances.

My context was in the big picture. As he told me this to instill confidence in his ability.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,
Jason

UPDATED:

Thanks for all the replies. I did what I could and what I felt best. I too have seen numerous hikers with problems. Mt Baldy (steep trail), it was a first hike for a guy in years and on Gorgonio, kid no water 0.5 mile from peak, his first hike.

I actually forgot to mention his excuse for not hiking on the weekends. He had 3 Birthday parties and 1 wedding. His priorities wasn't this hike.

If he had completed Half-Dome, I would have been angry that he did not listen to me, but attempted Whitney with him. If he didn't listen to me on the ground, do you think he will think to me at 14000k.

He has joined up with a group of strangers so it is what it is.

I offered to do Cactus to the Clouds with him.

See you all on the trails,
Jason

Let's just say I'm big on being in shape and having a very good knowledge base on backcountry things I attempt. But this is a a Mt. Whitney backpacking trip, which means you must be prepared to go 6 miles, +3,600' with X lb. pack; the rest takes care of itself...usually.

I think both of you have made mistakes.

How I would have handled it was...come on down, but don't count on me to hold your hand. This approach means your training doesn't go to waste, he knows you're pissed and; it all on him to get to Trail Camp on day one and the summit on on day 2.

Let him find out on his own this is a miserable experience if you are not properly prepared physically and are not properly geared. Coming here for Connecticut would make this a very expensive learning experience.

In the end, you summit Mt. Whitney and retain your friendship.

Maybe when he is on the mountain, common sense will prevail. Maybe he will summit without any problem. Maybe he just won't have the stamina to continue. Either way, it's beyond your control, sorry to hear you lost such a long-standing friendship. Hopefully the two of you can get over your disagreement.

maybe you can get a killer deal on some very low usage gear after the hike is over - only used once - then again your friend may surprise you. You will see many people who are only doing this as a one time experience. Look at the bright side - at your current fitness level it should be a moderate paced day for your at best. Throw a bottle of scotch in your pack and enjoy. I think you should give credence to the fact that somebody spent well over $1000. to make this trip work. Just hopefully everyone is able to turn around as conditions warrant. It is all about the hike(with friends helps) and less about the summit.

just my .02c worth

Jason, I agree with much of what you said. However, I live in NC at about 400 feet above sea level, and summited Whitney with NO problems this summer. If you friend did hike the White Mountains, it would not really help. Acclamating at 6000 feet does little to prepare you for altitudes over 10,000 feet.

What your friend could do (which is what I did) is to come early and do a few days of hiking at Horseshoe Meadows, Lone Pine Lake, etc. He could also sleep a couple of nights at Horseshoe Meadows or Whitney Portal. This would be enough to get him ready, assuming that he is otherwise physically fit. He should value your friendship and trust your advice enough to at least do this much.

What I fear about your friend is that he may not have the good sense to turn back in the event of thunderstorms, high winds, or the onset of AMS.

It's regrettable that both of you have dug in your heels and appear to have ended your friendship in a rather pigheaded way on both your parts. I agree with one poster who said why not just go with him and see how it goes; it might work out or he might poop out and admit that you were right. I also agree with another poster who noted that Whitney has a way of forcing realization of one's limits. It's often humbling but seldom fatal. As far as altitude problems go, last month I drove from So Cal to Lone Pine, stayed there overnight, and backpacked up to Trail Camp next day. Summited the following day with no altitude problems. Everyone's different in their tolerance to higher altitude.

Troll alert!!! Or am I too cynical?

No, you are not. I've gotten some private email, though, which is not usually the case with trolls.