Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Ultralight Backpack

While getting ready for my upcoming summit bid up the direct route I had an epiphany and hope that some of the members here can help me out. As everyone knows ultralight backpacks have become a trend that looks like its going to stick around. It seems only natural to extend that concept to super light or lighter than air equipment. My concept is to fill the empty space in the pack with helium or hyrdrogen gas so that the pack is essentially carrying itself. I've not figured out the volume of gas required yet to make this practical, but I figure that any amount should help. It may even be practical to create an extra large backpack contraption filled with enough gas that it could provide some lift to the hiker. Since I am not from your country I would like help contacting gear makers and getting a patent. I'd also like assistance from a physicist or engineer to help me do the required engineering. I think this will be huge.

Andraes,

This is a great idea. It's on a par with the idea that (your relative?) Andreas posted yesterday to carry 45% of your body weight in rocks on your back.

I'd like to combine the Andraes and Andreas ideas -- rock-filled balloons. I am working on the patent now but am open to taking on partners in this venture.

I know of a place where we can recover a lot of depleted Uranium, which should be even better than ordinary rocks.

I'd stick to helium because hydrogen is very explosive. BUT, if you can get you physicist and engineer contacts to calculate the exact amount of hydrogen needed and some type of steering mechanism i think it should be possible to just
propel yourself, with a small explosion, directly
to the summit.

Before you laugh too hard, this guy made it to 16,000 feet with a scheme akin to that proposed by our friend Andraes.

http://www.darwinawards.com/stupid/stupid1997-11.html

Larry was not exactly a hiker type, but he was clearly ahead of his time. However, he did understand that "A man can't just sit around."

did you know that lye in a water medium, when added to alluminum produces hydrogen gas. Just take up a 3 pound glass winebottle-(have to empty it first)-add a pound of lye and water-and introduce alluminum foil into the mixture and you get pure hydrogen gas. If you take a large balloon, put it over the neck you can get up to a pound of lift out of a balloon about 3 feet in diameter. patent that!-law of diminishing returns--after you are done you can use the rocks to break the bottle-and litter the camp.
Maybe back to the drawing board on this plan. Ya think? lol

Hey! You stole my idea! Actually I was thinking of a birthday-type helium baloon to tie to the backpack. However, not a good idea in high winds.

Seriously though, I used the Golite backpack just last week. Weighs 1.9 lbs. Good up to 30 lbs, I think I had 25-27 lbs in it. For its size it holds a huge amount of stuff. It's a rucksack affair and is deeper than the length of my arm. The only problem is that the shoulder straps are too thin and wimpy. Caused severe pain on my shoulders. For the next trip I';ll be getting some foam rubber pads for it. Otherwise I highly recommend it.

Sherry, I too have a golite pack, it hurts my shoulders too, padding the straps would not help me, a good hipbelt to carry some of the weight on my hips would though. Does your golite have a good hipbelt?

get the Gregory G-pack. It weighs 1.5 lbs and handle up to 25lbs. DO NOT go over 25lbs or it will be uncomfortable. A friend and I did Phantom Ranch to the South Rim via Bright Angel Trail this past March in 4 hours a 10 minutes with the pack loaded to 24.5lbs and it felt great. Forget the go-lite stuff unless you are carrying less than 20 lbs. By the way I sell packs all day so I get a lot of feedback from customers.

The problem with ultralight gear on this trip is the bear canister requirement. There is more than 10 to 15% of total pack weight.

I've asked minimalists about how a BRC is handled, both weight and bulk, and I haven't got what I consider a good answer. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Bill

Yes, Paige, it has a hipbelt. My mistake was probably loading the heavy stuff up high like they say...the damned bear cannister! The load was comfy before I put that thing on. Being up high the load was unstable and would shift.

On the way down I put the bear cannister on the bottom. Surprisingly it didn't hit me in the kidneys as bad as I though it would and the load rode balanced and very comfortable. I love the pack and being this was my first trip with it, I will pack without first time mistakes next time. Actually 2 liquid Advils at a time killed the shoulder pain.

i would be very interested to know the results of your experiment.

Sherry, travis;

Can we please get back on topic?

I want to know if I can use hydrogen from the empty spaces in my backpack to fuel my stove. We all know fuel is a moaor part of stove weight, and that gas is lighter than liquids.

I wouldnt try harnessing hydrogen gas for fuel. As mentioned earlier hydrogen gas is very explosive, and professional scientist are having trouble harnessing it for normal small scale civilian use. So probably wouldnt be a smart way to go.
Eric

Since we're goofing off. Check out http://www.ediblegear.com/

Edible Gear.....does that mean you would not need a bear canister or would you have to get a canister big enough to sleep in?

I did some quick research and a little calculating and came up with the following.

There is marginal difference in lift capacity between helium and hydrogen. (Small enough to ignore for this example.) Hyrdrogen is highly flammable so you may not want to use it. The advantage of hydrogen is that it is a renewable resource. Helium is a relatively rare and a non-renewable resource. It is the byproduct of radioactive decay deep within the earth's crust and most commonly produced as an offshoot of natural gas production. Only a very small percentage of gas wells have significant quantities of helium. The reason helium is relatively cheap is that there are few commercial uses for it besides inflating balloons.

A typical weather balloon is about 7.5 feet in diameter and has a lift capacity at sea level of 15 pounds. At higher elevations the lift capacity will be 20-30% less.

Assuming that one is fully embracing the ultr-light theme then their backpack will be about 15 pounds in weight and most of that weight will be in water. Here's where things get tricky. Backpacks are meant to hang on hips and shoulders. If you use too many weather balloons you run the risk of your backpack becoming lighter than air and riding funny on your back. This problem becomes more acute as you drink more water. I would suggest that you use no more than one weather balloon.

A weather balloon can be filled in a matter of minutes using a standard industrial sized helium container. However these things can be quite heavy and awkward to transport. The little pony cylinders sold at party supply places for balloon inflation are a mixture of helium and air so I would not recommend them.

On the lower reaches of the trail travel with a weather balloon attached to your back would likely be difficult as the brush on the side of the trail could pose a problem. Weather balloons are relatively durable, but would not fare well in a tussle with a low hanging branch. The upper sections of the trail would not have the tree problems, but the wind would pull on the weather balloon and may cause one to lose balance. This could be especially problematic traversing the windows.

If one must use a balloon to assist in gaining the summit, I would suggest following the exampel of the gentleman in Los Angeles who a few years ago tied many weather balloons to a lawn chair and floated to Palmdale. He controlled his altitude using a pellet gun to pop balloons one at a time.

I wish you good luck in your attempt and think you would likely have more luck trying to develop some type of quantum anti-gravity device.

SpankyBob -- you referred to the late Lawn Chair Larry Walters. Here is his story:

http://tinyurl.com/2phdk

Larry is one of my heroes. I first learned of him while he was still airborne, and I followed the story through to his landing. Later, I learned of his suicide and was truly saddened, because he probably didn't know how much inspiration he gave to so many of us. When humdrum existences abound, it really helps to know that there are Larrys in this world.

Another of my true heroes is Naomi Uemura. You can look him up. If you come across his obituary in the April 12, 1984 issue of Rolling Stones - or the May 1984 issue of Outside - you will know what I mean.

Bob,
Has Naomi Uemura's body been located since he disappeared in 1984 or is he still out there? Did he disappear on the West Buttress?

I think I would have heard if his body had been discovered. Yes, it was the West Buttress, and he made the summit - the first solo ascensionist in winter (February 12). He was last seen, from the air, descending at 16,000'.