Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Major violent shivers

Can anyone tell me why...that when we got back down to LP after our Whitney summit, I began to involuntarily and violently shake and it seemed as though my body obviously was attempting to regulate my core temp....it went away after about 30 mins or so, but freaked my daughter out..did we come down too fast? Or was my body telling me to go back to the mountains ; )
I've never had anything like that happen before.

Jdub http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab89A8DEJZk

Lots of possible causes, electrolyte imbalance comes to mind first. Possble type of clothing comes to mind as well: if it truly was a temp thing, if you were wearing cotton and were sweating it can lead to getting chilled.

I agree with Laura. It sounds like dehydration and electrolyte imbalance. How much were you peeing? What color was the pee?

I was pounding cytomax(a lactic acid buffer and electrolite powder) on the way up...so much so, that i was burping it, amongst other things my daughter can attest to..poor child..anyhow I was totally burned on it..so ya on the way down I'm sure I did'nt drink the fluids I should have...as for the clothing, I had a polyester base layer on w/cotton T over.

Thanks...btw...Laura, you've got the coolest photo's and posts on this message board!! It' good to see someone enjoying and celebrating LIFE.

Jdub http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab89A8DEJZk

Thanks jdub...

It's a dry climate in the Owens Valley and in the mountains. My goal when I'm hanging around Bishop for the day is 2-3 liters per day. On a trip I shoot for 4-5 liters. My two favorite drink mixes with electroytes are Cytomax and Vitalite (formerly Hydralite, formally formally Gookinaid). Mix it weak and keep pounding the fluids. As you found out it's just as important on the descent as it is on the ascent.

Thanks Kurt,
You guys are great..I believe I did mix the cyto too strong..my mistake was also wanting to get back to the car too soon, I don't know why I was in such a hurry? Live and learn I guess.

Jdub

Ellen Coleman would be the one to really give an expert viewpoint on this, but overloading on the electrolytes can be overkill and make it difficult for the body to process them (at least that's my hypothesis). I would think that's one of the reasons you were burpin' it back up (eww...). As we all know, hydration is absolutely key for maintaining activity of this kind and at this altitude, and that's what your symptoms sounded like (not enough fluid).



OK, so you had a wicking layer and then a layer that would hold the moisture, which in turn would keep the wicking layer moist, which would then try to pull the moisture back away, and so on, and so on... Just something to think about for next time. I'm a wool convert myself, especially like the Icebreaker products: pulls moisture away, dries quickly, doesn't smell, machine washable (honestly, the best part!)!!! They're pricey (except steepandcheap.com has had some killer deals on them recently) but absolutely worth it.



Thanks! Glad you like them! See you in the mountains.

-L

I have had the same symptoms after a hard hike out of the mountains. I can relate to your hurrying -- seems I always do that on the last day out. Seems like fun to push myself.

And then the shivvering comes after any of those days if I get the least bit chilled.

I just attribute it to the exhaustion of the power hike out. Although the hurried hike means less hydration too. Laura's and Kurt's dehydration and electrolyte imbalance may be part of the problem.

After I have eaten and drank enough, I don't have the symptoms any more.

This happened to me when we got to Trail Camp on our hike. I remember Mom saying that she couldn't believe I was so cold... she wasn't having much issue with the temps. I think it was mainly exhaustion.. just pure old exhaustion.... maybe a little shocky from the exertion...

Just my two cents worth..

This occasionally happens to me, too, after a long hard day. The only thing I can correlate it with is not getting enough calories, especially in the latter part of the day.

Exactly...after we ate I felt normal. But I could'nt even go inside Mickey D's in Lone Pine for my fillet of fish, cause it was too cold for my body..it seemed like on my way out of the mountains I put my mind and body on auto-pilot til we got to the car and then it hit me. Thanks to all for your input

Jdub

I agree with Steve. The exact same thing happened to me several years ago on my return from the summit to the portal campground. I crawled into my sleeping bag and was shaking so bad I thought about going to the hospital. My wife made a sandwich for my son and friend and happened to make me one. After I ate, I stopped shaking and felt better.
Upon reflecting about my food for the day (1 oatmeal and 1 powerbar on the summit) I realized I had not eaten enough food, which is hard at altitude. Now I try to snack all day and don't miss any meals.

"Eat your way to the top"

The body is complex. It definately needs fuel to run the machine properly. The calorie is a measurement of heat and associated with food because of the heat food calories can generate in the body. In order for the muscles to work properly after the stored muscle fuel(glycogen) is depleted, the body needs food(calories) to be broken down into blood sugar and released into the cells through a complicated process. This also runs the body heater(BMR) and keeps core temp up.
Bottom line food is necessary to fuel the muscles and to keep the bodies temperature elevated and regulated. If food consumption immediately resolved the shaking then it is most likely due to low blood sugar causing poor muscle function or low core temp in combination with getting chilled. Lack of electrolites usually manifests in a cramp or continuos contraction.
There are no absolutes.
Congradulations on the summit.

Thanks Doc...I believe you hit that one right out of the park!! Almost immediately after I ate and especially after drinking the sugar laden Dr Pepper, I was literally on the road to recovery.

Thanks for responding,
Jdub
P.S. if you have time, you can check out our slideshow (view in high quality) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab89A8DEJZk

One thing I have found to be very effective in helping to recover from calorie or sugar depletion is the GU gel that you can buy in those little packets. Many times when I've been on the trail and I start feeling out of energy or feeling poorly I have used a GU and drank some water and found that at least some of my energy and strength has been replenished. They're also good for when you know you're going to be exerting a maximum effort up a hard or steep climb and you want to prepare yourself beforehand. One last usage is that I always keep at least a couple in reserve for unforeseen circumstances where you just might need every last bit of energy to get out of a poor situation. While I don't depend on these for the majority of my nourishment while hiking, I think they're a very important supplement to have along.

Jdub,

It happened to my friend once when we descended the Mountaineer's Route and we were camped at Iceberg Lake. He got in his sleeping bag, eventually the shivering stopped and he was able to get to sleep. He was fine the next morning. It gave us some concern being at almost 13,000 feet and not knowing if he was having some AMS issues.

Once my brother and I hiked Baden Powell and got caught by rain near the summit. We hiked down in the rain. Although we had rain parkas, our lower bodies got really soaked. I didn't feel cold as long as we were hiking. After we were back at our cars and changed into dry clothes I started shivering so hard it was hard to drive. I blasted the heater in my truck but I still shivered. Looking back on the experience, I realize that once it cooled off and started to rain I probably stopped drinking enough fluids.

THERMOREGULATION

Thermoregulation is the homeostatic ability of an organism to keep its body temperature within certain boundaries, even when the temperature and/or conditions surrounding may be very different.

I believe thermoregulation is the main problem described in this thread. I have witnessed multiple episodes described in the various posts here, including my own wife. Personally the coldest I ever was in my life was after coming down from Aconcagua. The subzero did not get me, but guzzling three ice-cold Cokes was like an ice enema. Shiver me timbers!

I believe it is more common in females than males. Just as many of us have different paces, stamina and other inborn physiological traits, thermoregulation is one as well. The Air Force knows this, it placed naked recruits in cold rooms and found out that women and men were different. Duh! There are plenty of other circumstances. How about feeling cold on a warm summer night after a bad sunburn and/or too much alcohol? Need a sweater even though it is 80 degrees? What's going on?

Something similar but more extreme happens after an exhausting hike: fatigue, maybe some dehydration and hunger are part of the equation, but once you slow down your furnace is no longer burning as fast. Add to that not changing into dry or warmer clothes. Add to that a low humidity environment like Whitney area, and you have fast evaporative cooling. Body temp falls. Some people are able to thermoregulate quickly or within a small range, others don't. Once they are cold, the only way to get it back up is either voluntary activity or involuntary activity, known as shivering.

Thus endeth the Sermon on the Mount.(pun intended). Harvey

Another thought, which is just speculation, is that there might be a bit of thermal "bounce" going on. It's a concern with hypothermic patients. The basic problem is that cold skin and peripherals will absorb heat from the core once circulation is restored to normal (this gets shut down in hypothermia situations--it's part of the body's attempt to maintain core temperature). In this case, circulation was probably normal when you were walking, but that big heat engine got turned off suddenly when you stopped exercising. The cold outer then added a load to the body's homeostatic system that it might not have been in a good position to handle.

Thanks to all who added to this topic! This message board definitely has a wealth of info...I guess the moral to this particular story is..even when going downhill, be sure to keep your body fueled and hydrated...and it's not too unusual to shiver...just listen to your body and definitely invest in some wool and/or polyester clothing..and stay away from cotton if possible.

Psalms 98...Carpe Diem!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab89A8DEJZk

J-dub

Congratulations on the summit w/ your daughter..What an awesome video, love the music too!