Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board camp availability at Horseshoe Meadow, June 30

My basic question is: Is there a preferable time of day (weekday) for arriving at Horseshoe Meadow Campground to have the best chance at actually getting a site? This considering they are unreserved.

Now the background: I am doing Whitney for the first time as well as my first summit ever. I will be day hiking it(only permit available). My plan is to arrive at Horseshoe Meadow Campground(HMC) Monday, June 30 for acclimation. Camp & hike there Mon. and Tues., try to get rest Wed. afternoon, and start Whitney around 2am on Thursday, July 3rd.

So, repeating the question, I want to be able to actually get a site at HMC on Monday, but I have no idea how crowded it may be, and I'd rather camp at decent, but not foolish elevation. Reccomendations? Should I reserve a spot at Lone Pine Campground as a backup? I'd like to hear what other people have done in regards to this type of thing.

Thanks to all!

Don't worry. There are 3 separate campgrounds there, NAP/CL, CP and Equestian. There will be space in one of them. With that said, I've only had to move to another campground up there once.

These campsites are one day and done. However, I have heard rangers tell folks up there it is ok to camp multiple days. Just be aware you can be told to move...or pack up for 3 or 4 hours and set up again.

The campground don't approach full until Friday very late. Therefore, you are free to pick your campsite. I am partial to those at NAP/CL Trailhead, which our group uses even when starting location is CP.

Don't see it mentioned much, but I've done it several times in my truck. There are numerous hidden and not so hidden car camping sites available off the HS Meadow road once you get past the hang glider area. I've been driving up in the evening, find a spot and sleep in the back of the truck. Then drive to the Shepherd Pass trailhead after early breakfast in LP. Not sure of the scientific facts, but even one night acclimating at 10,000 feet seems to help. Of course, I'm 65 and have discovered that all that literature about tectonic plate movement and mountain growth over millions of years is bs - those trails get steeper every year.

Tectonics have nothing to do with it. Gravity does. The spin of the earth has increased gravitational forces in the last few decades, such that not only is it harder to move objects and bodies up hill, but the earth's surface has become more dense, making it harder to sleep on the ground.

I am 65 also, and personally have to factor in the 'groceries quotient', which pads my sleeping on the ground but hinders my uphill movement..............heheHHHHhhh.............steve

65 year old here. i was up at horseshoe meadows last saturday. got there about 7:30 pm. my plan was to sleep in my mini-van in the parking lot. got there and saw very few cars in the parking area. picked a spot next to the bathrooms.
before heading up the road to hsm i stopped at the lone pine ranger offices to ask some questions. didn't want to break any rules. i said i wanted to sleep saturday night at hsm in my van. they said no problem. they said that there were 10 walk-in camp sites. first come, first served.
i asked if i needed a permit for sunday morning as i was going to hike up trail pass and turn south on the pct to meet some friends hiking from kennedy meadows to horseshoe meadows. i was their driver. they said no premit needed for a day hike.
if you have the time i would suggest you stop at the ranger station and them about your options.
hope this helps some.
chris

Thanks for the info everyone! Seems as though this will be one of the easier parts of the trip. I'm looking forward to it!

You have several options for acclimatization. It is tricky.

IF you day hike Whitney, and if you are susceptible to AMS symptoms then there is a good chance that you will get up and down before they catch up with you. Most of the severe symptoms occur when sleeping ('longer' term stay) at altitude.

The idea is to hit the trail fresh, well rested, filled to overflowing with water (and stay that way), well fed and raring to go - SLOWLY.

A good pace to set is directed by step breathing. Inhale on the placement of one foot and exhale on the placement of the other. Keeping your heart rate at a level that you can maintain over a long time, you can adjust how much air you need by taking shorter or longer strides. Doing this right will get you up there at a steady pace without having to try to keep from dying and recovering on too frequent stops on the trail. Maintaining a steady, but advanced, heart rate is key to getting to the tops of big ones. Just don't throw a rod by trying to keep up with the cutie in front of you.

If you don't get a good previous night's rest at 10,000, that will impact the next day. IF you are prone to AMS, then spending advance time high may scratch you for a try at Whitney even as a day hike. No way of knowing ahead of time if you are going to get sick. The odds are that you will not.

The good part is that most don't have significant reactions to altitude below 12,000-14,000'. A slight headache, lost of appetite, poor sleeping (Cheyne-Stokes), general malaise are minor indications of adjustment problems. Everybody has them to some degree. If you have flu type symptoms then more than likely you should not be there, but lower.

There is some indication that the best way to acclimate is to exercise to near exhaustion (assuming a high fitness level) at as high an altitude you can get, then return to a much lower area to recover. A take off on the climb high sleep low mantra. This would indicate getting up to Army Pass or Langley and return to Lone Pine (or an intermediate altitude) to sleep and repeated often. This would not be a good plan if you are going to do Whitney the next day or so.

To become FULLY acclimated to 6,000' takes about two weeks, 6 weeks at 8,000; 6 months at 10,000 and about 13 months at 14,000. This would indicate that few are fully acclimated to any altitude they get to in the Sierra. Most who visit the Sierra are from sea level.

The nice thing is that most of the 'acclimatization' part occurs in the first few days or weeks depending upon how you react to it.

Depending upon how you might react, it might be prudent to hang out high for some time before going up higher.

Personally I don't worry about it, haven't had a previous history of significant problems and figure that anytime I spend up high should be getting some place that I want to get to -- not waiting for my body to catch up to my ambitions. I would not, for example, sleep at Horseshoe Meadows before going up that trail to the lakes or over the pass - I don't sleep well at altitude. I leave early from my house, arrive a bit later and leisurely go up the trail. It takes me a few days to get where I don't notice, when I think of it, that I am at altitude and my resting heart rate has finally slowed.

An experiment that is interesting to try when you get up there. If you are going over an eastern Sierra pass (or about 12,000') and it is calm, sit down and fan yourself with your hand - as if too cool off. You won't feel very much of a breeze. Now do same thing on top of Whitney. It will take a wide brimmed hat waving hard to feel a slight breeze.

Gives new meaning to the force behind the wind that slams you down on your kiester at altitude.

Steve: Very good post on acclimatization.

Kathy

Steve,

This why I think familiarization with the elevation you are hiking at is more important than acclimatization, especially on these one day and done trips.

BTW, I've had AMS as low as 7,500' but there is something to the time thing. I can day hike anywhere in SoCal without being affected but I've had a miserable time in the Sierra on longer day hikes, like Whitney and White. Therefore, I think the a time and elevation component to this. For me, its better high elevation hiking through pharmaceuticals.

Last weekend I took some Boy Scouts and camped there; there was hardly anyone else in those campgrounds. Maybe the crowds come later in June, but in my experience I have never had a problem finding a campsite up there. I'd say your chances are great of getting a site up there. As a backup you could stay at Tuttle Creek campground.

Yep, the younger you are (less than 10) and the older you are it seems the more susceptible you are to altitude affects. Seems like a sweet spot of about 25-40 years old.

My suggestion, wb, is that you don't get any older.

I tried it and I recommend it whole heartedly.

Kathy, thanks. We ought to go for a walk together again some day. I got a whole new collection of lies and exaggerations to pass on.

Steve:

Yes, we should go for a walk together sometime - let me know when you want company on a hike. It's been a long time and I'd love to listen to the new collection of lies and exaggerations - the old collection was pretty darn good.

Kathy

Hey Steve, I am well beyond that age range and I don't want to back . Hmmm...maybe just a little.

I was under the idea that the older you got the less AMS affected people. I remember reading that is why some 20-40 marathoners/ tri-athletes struggled at altitude or required longer acclimation. I'll try researching that source.

Doc, some clinical research findings are an indication to a lower incidence of HACE in older folk. So you are right there.

It is in a lot of literature that older age is not a significant risk factor for AMS. Don't recall seeing any studies that showed that and what the subjects were doing, back ground, etc. At least it only appears to be anecdotal on the Net. Also don't know if the data was talking to HAPE/HACE or just the gollywobles and rattle in a head symptom.

As I remember one study of age related altitude symptoms had to do with sedentary patients, not a more active 50-70 yo, who has NOT been selected out because of fitness. Don't recall the demographics or physical condition.

Of the other articles (two of them ummm somewhere lost in the bookmarks) one was oriented toward medical treatment of AMS in older patients that had affects of or indications such as: diabetes ('leaky veins'), emphysema (duh!), existing heart problems, and other ills that afflict the elderly.

Also among the younger subjects (in the sweet spot) they were more motivated in activities that included strenuous activity. The perception was that they were not as 'sick' or debilitated as the 'older' patients who probably had other issues as well.

The response to the onset of minor symptoms (not HAPE/HACE) includes an experience factor that a frequent hiker at altitude might use to put aside minor problems that routinely are known to occur -- and simply not dwell on them. Also within a pool of hikers, there are proportionally more in the lower-mid ages who are active than are in the upper (or lower) ages. If the study were to include a more representative sample of the upper age population, then other factors could influence. Perhaps the old geezers just don't like to get up that high to start with anymore.

Children are just more AMS susceptible (and healthier) over all than are their elders. I'm going to guess that birth problems of acclimated newborns (9 months +-) will be higher for moms who live above 14,000'. At least the studies of the high school scores of the graduates at Leadville, CO, might indicate a longer term problem with altitude as well. But I digress....

Somewhere along the two tails of a distribution one would expect and be able to project problems. It is already known and documented about youngsters -- that's one tail.

Not sure how I would correlate 20-40yo tri-athelete and a fit (should be) retired gent doing the same exercise at altitude. I know I'd die early on just trying to keep up with one of those kids just eating breakfast!! One thing about being a very fit, very stupid young man. He can get to a higher altitude a LOT faster and keep working through symptoms a lot more than his dad can. That would be a hazard in any body's book.

But the primary thing was a dig at WBTravis for having another birthday.