Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Rainier vs. Whitney

I've done a couple of Mt. Whitney day hikes.

This year, I've decided to do something different -- a guided two day climb up Mt. Rainier on the "easiest" DC cleaver route.

For people who have done both, how do they compare?

I would assume you are talking about a summer-time climb of Rainier. IMO, Whitney and Rainier are totally different. On Whitney you are hiking pretty much snow-free trails. On Rainier, it is entirely snow and ice, with crevasses, rockfall, avalanches and extremely changeable (as in life-threatening) weather. On Rainier you must be trained in snow and ice travel, which your guide service will provide, since you'll be climbing with crampons and an ice axe. And, you will be roped to climbing partners.

Rainier is a great challenge and a great accomplishment to safely and successfully summit. A guide service is the way to go when you are solo. Enjoy the climb!

I've done Rainier and Hood, will do Whitney in a couple weeks. I echo what Wayne said, they are two totally different climbs. A person on my rope team on Rainier had done Whitney as training and thought Rainier was the more difficult climb.

Suggest that you look at this post for a thorough answer, but other than similar altitude they have very different climbing characteristics:

Rainier WPMB

Whitwalker,

I've guided on both Whitney and Rainier for 15+ years. As the guys above say they are very different mountains although both are wonderful climbs. Read the thread Sierra Sam points you to above and if you have more questions feel free to ask on this thread and myself and others will be happy to answer them.

When are you going to Rainier?

All the best,

Kurt

The others have ably answered your question. But I thought it might be interesting to compare pictures on Rainier last year ( September 4 - 6 ) with a climb of Mt. Whitney later in the month ( September 22 ).

Maybe it's just me, but I felt that Rainier via DC in the summer was significantly harder than Whitney via the main trail or the mountaineer's route in the summer. It took a lot more training and a couple of attempts for me to get up Rainier, but I was able to do the trudge up Whitney without near the amount of training. It's really different when traveling on a roped team - you just can't stop and catch your breath anytime you want to - especially when there is danger of rock or ice falling. I thought that after I got up Williamson in 2 days when there was snow above 10,000' I was ready for Rainier the first time, but I was wrong because I didn't take into account the steady pace (although not fast) that I would need to keep above Muir Camp on Rainier. I struggle with the thin air above 11,000 feet, so I stop a lot to catch my breath and move slowly - that had worked for me in the Sierra but not when I was roped on Rainier. I assume that people who have less problems breathing above 11,000 feet will have less problems with Rainier.

Thanks for the valuable info. on both threads. Bob R, great pictures as always.

I approach Mt. Rainier both with anticipation and respect.

My climb is with RMI, just over a week from now. I've been training with a heavy pack on hills and stairs for over a month, but I know that's no substitute for the more technical skills that I'll learn the first day on the mountain.

I've done some winter climbs and summer ice climbs on mountains like Shasta and Hood but have been turned back each time due to weather. I hope for better success this time but if I have to turn back I know that the experience is far more valuable than making the summit.

I don't think people are actually going up via Disappointment Cleaver anymore this season - they are dropping down from Ingram Flats to the Emmons Glacier and going up. We went up July 16th and were still able to go via Disappointment Cleaver and then traverse over to Emmons - it's probably longer and more elevation gain now due to the drop from Ingram Flats.

Here's a good place for conditions:

http://mountrainierclimbing.blogspot.com/

I remember viewing those photos from Bob last year..fantastic. (He always runs into chicks on his hikes!??!) This picture, of course, stood out:





Chris

That's correct. The route is definitely longer now. After cutting underneath the Cleaver it ascends the Emmons Glacier and will slowly angle right eventually getting on to a part of the Emmons referred to as the "shoulder". It's a good route but is just a bit longer than usual. The route hasn't gone this way since the early 80s.

Rainier is the hardest endurance climb in the lower 48. It's also a very rewarding climb and the scenery is beautiful. I've worked with RMI since 1991 and they are wonderful people. Have a great time on the climb and give us a report upon your return!

All the best,

Kurt

Having summitted Rainier last June and just returned from my first Mt Whitney trip i would so concur that the two mountains are totally different and so impressive in their own ways. Alttude is really about the only comparison. The techniality of Rainier is what makes is so different than Whitney but, Whitney possesses her own signature as well. Both mountains are due our respect and enjoyment. That being said i would encourage all first timers of Rainier to go with a guide if they don't have experience with glacier travel. The exposure on Rainier can imtimidate if not with someone experienced. I did the week expedition seminar with R.M.I and had the experience of a life time. I plan to revisit both Rainier and Whitney in my futre

I have dayhiked MW many times and did Rainier on June 24th of this year with Alpine Ascents, an outfit similar to RMI. Here are some other things to consider.

On MW, you set the pace and it is typically fairly quick because you are on a dry trail with a light pack. On MR, the guide sets the pace, the hike is on a lot of slow snow and ice, you're with a group that marches as quick as its slowest member, and your pack will be 40+ lbs. On my hike with 8 climbers, remarkably, 4 said they had "never hiked up a mt". So, if you are in excellent shape and well prepared, you may find yourself waiting for others. I found the pace to be rather slow. On MW, it is a long dayhike and the pace needs to be quicker. On MR, the group is staying on the mt anyways after day 1 so there is little urgency.

On MW, you typically spend a few nights at altitude to acclimate. At MR, there is no acclimation to be had, other than one night at Camp Muir at about 10,000 feet prior to summit day. BTW, RMI spends one night on the mt at altitude, Alpine Ascents spends one night at 10,000, another at about 11,000. Key difference.

Hydration at altitude is obviously important but I think there is a difference between mts. MW usually has very low humidity. MR is a moist area with much higher humidity. I believe this made the hydration issue much less of a problem at MR.

On MW, one typically starts a day hike at 3-4am. On MR, summit day can start at midnight or earlier; we went to bed at 7pm and were awakened at 1115pm. MR features a much longer hike in the dark. At MW, you will get more sleep the night prior to your dayhike, at MR, you will get a few hours if you're lucky, be well rested before arriving in Seattle.

MW requires shorts and shirt; tomorrow's summit forecast high is 55. MR requires a lot of clothes, tomorrow's summit forecast high is 37. Another key but overlooked difference is that on MW, you climb in your trusted hiking shoes, on MR, you will probably rent double plastic mountaineering boots from RMI. Our group had its share of blisters from rented boots.

And finally, and this was the most significant for me, the hike down MW ends at about 8,200feet; the hike down MR ends at 5,420, almost another 3,000 of vertical. Our group started at 1am at 11,000, reached the summit at 7am, started down at 8am, and reached the parking lot at 5pm. It was a long day.

RMI will teach you the basics of glacier travel and that will be the least of your worries. If you can dayhike MW with ease, you will be do fine due to the slower pace and two days to do what we do in one day on MW. Arrive at MR with a patient outlook and don't let any slow group dynamics bother you. The climb is absolutely spectacular. Good luck!

Two completely different animals. I turned around at 12,300 on Rainier 3 weeks ago, just above dissapointemnt cleaver. Tired, bad blisters etc.

Did Whitney (the High Sierra Trail) 75 miles in 5 days just this week. That may show a bit how Rainier is more difficult. Both are awesome places. I went with RMI as well, want to go again next year, want to do the 5 days program though.

-TIM-

People have mentioned the physical aspects of climbing the two peaks. The mental piece is important too. Rope team dynamics, etc. plays into it and you need to be tuned in to everything that is happening around you. Crevasses, rock fall, slips, etc. all force a vigilence that is not comparable to Whitney.

One more item - have your personal gear dialed in. Being able to quickly and efficiently don/doff clothing, get your food/water to fuel up and hydrate are important. Nothing like coming off a break to find that someone on the rope team is futzing with their pack while everyone else gets cold.....

Unless you are incapable of summiting Rainier, the guides will get you there safely. Other than that, don't worry about the summit. Make sure to enjoy the excitement of the ascent, the thrill (fear!) of crossing bottomless crevasses, viewing spectacular sunrises and the slow realization that hits you when you see steam venting near the summit register:
This is a VOLCANO that I am on!!

Done Whitney and Rainier. The analogy would be Whitney is jogging around the flat track around a football field, whereas Rainier would be jogging up the football stadium stairs.

I just got back from my final training for Rainier. While I wasn't able to get to Whitney I did something similar at Tahoe.

My brother accompanied me on these hikes, although he won't be making the trip to Rainier.

The first day we climbed to within 300 feet of Mt. Freel before turning around due to time constraints. Total time on the trail was 6 hours, altitude gain was 2,900 feet, and we walked 14 miles.

The second day I hiked what I consider the best loop trail at Tahoe. We started at the Tallac trailhead and ended at the Eagle Pass trailhead. We hiked over 15.5 miles. The first part of the trail summits Mt. Tallac. Some sections of the trail are steep with scree. This part of the trail climbs 3,300 feet. The next part of the trail descends to Gilmore Lake and then ascends to Dicks Pass for another altitude gain of 1,100 feet. We compled the trail by passing Eagle Lake and Eagle Falls. Overall this trail has about 5,000 feet of altitude gain. We was on the trail for 10 hours.

Today, I have muscle pains and my longest toe on each foot is painful and the nails have turned black.

Hopefully, this training will allow me to have a more enjoyable trip up Rainier.

Mt Rainier is one of my favorite mountains. It provides an excellent environment for training and enjoyment of mountaineering. Even though the DC route is probably the easiest on this huge volcano, getting to the summit has its physical and mental challenge. It is still 9,000 foot elevation gain and the second half is over beautiful glaciers with beautiful views to the Cascades and particularly to Adams Glacier on Mt Adams. Due to the late summer conditions the mountain will most likely be noisy from rock falls and sliced by crevasses which provide additional excitement.


Mt Whitney, on the other hand, is usually quiet but still takes lives of those who ignore her. This mountain, however, provides and excellent environment for winter climbing. She may be merciless in demonstrating her temper. She even may trap climbers if they are not prepared for her rapidly changing mood. Winter low temperatures (I encountered up to negative 40C), threatening winds, whiteouts, and tough snow conditions make these climbs remarkable and exciting with the luxury of limited factors such as glaciers and crevasses.


There are mountains and routes that by a definition are tough or deadly even in the best conditions, but generally I would say: It's not the mountain, it's the route. It's not the route, it's the conditions (including weather). The DC route on Rainier is not an exception. Your trip may go smoothly without much excitement or you may be forced to turn back at any time. Your guides will make such a decision. However, even if you make no summit, you will gain a nice experience and confidence.

I just got back from my Rainier trip.

I summited Mt. Rainier, because of great conditions, excellent guides, and good teammates none of which I had met before.

I was on the three day program. The first day iss for training. The second day requires hiking up from Paradise at 5,400 feet to Camp Muir at around 10,000 feet. The third day is the summit climb followed by returning to Paradise.

In "Whitney" terms, I'd say that the first day is equivalent to humping a full pack from the Portal to Trail Camp. The second day is like doing a complete Whitney day hike from the Portal, to the summit, and then back to the Portal.

Our RMI group consisted of nine people and three guides.

Training day was rainy. Fortunately, we were able to return to civilization. Those one day ahead of us had to go to Camp Muir in wet clothes and pack. What a miserable way to get ready for summit day.

For us, the hike from Paradise to Camp Muir was under partly cloudy conditions. We each carried a 40 pound pack. Halfway was on madadam/dirt and halfway was on the Muir ice field. We started at around 10:00 AM and finished at 3:00 PM. After choosing our bunks and eating, it was lights out at 6:00 PM.

After slipping into and out of sleep I was wakened at 12:00 AM for the main event. The guides selected us into three rope teams each consisting of three people and one guide. After putting on our harness, avalanche beacon, crampons, and pack we were roped up. We were off at 12:45 AM.

Conditions were great without a cloud in the sky. We marched at a steady pace first over the Cowlitz glacier, then the Cathedral gap, a slope filled with scree. We took our first bread at Ingraham flats on the Ingraham glacier. Everybody felt good.

Rather than going up the Disappointment Cleaver, as described in previous messages we descended around it to the Emmons Glacier. The descent got a little nerve racking because the person in front started to accelerate and almost pulled me over. After clipping in and climbing some ice steps we stopped for our second break at 3:00 AM.

At this point the guides determined who would continue and who would return. Because of my comment about the descent, I almost didn't make it, but after saying that it wasn't my fault I was allowed to continue. Due to exhaustion and other circumstances three people deciced to return to Camp Muir; one guide accompanied them.

Now it was all uphill on the Emmons glacier until we reached the summit. In some cases were clipped in. The guides had laid down a good number of pickets in "scary" areas.

If you like the switchbacks on Whitney, you'll love the switchbacks on Rainer. I'd say that there must be at least two to three times the number and altitude gain.

After a couple more rests of around 15 minutes we reached the summit at around 7:30 AM. Dawn had broken a couple of hours earlier. Fortunately, conditions were calm on top.

I had started to tire at 12,000 feet and was ready for a good long rest period. However, others had the idea of going across the crater to reach the "actual" summit at Columbia Crest. I hiked to the other side and signed the register, but was too tired to go the extra few feet to the top. Only one person in our group actually "summited".

At 8:45 AM we started down. In the light, many of the sections were scarier. I was starting to flag.

At rest periods and points where we were clipped in I was able to take pictures. What an awsome sight: massive glaciers, snow banks, and the jagged "Little Tahoma" peak.

Descending on the Cathedral Gap, I caught a crampon on a rock and triped. Fortunately, it was forward and caused no problems for the rest of the team, only to my knees.

We reached Camp Muir, exhausted, at 12:45 PM. We were down by 4:45 PM.

The Rainier climb was a great trip. People who have climbed Whitney and are well conditioned can climb Rainier - do it, it's worth it. Of course, Rainier was at its most benign. It still whipped me. In other conditions I would probably be moaning about its nasty side. Certainly making the summit would have been out of the question.