Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Quitting Whitney 4 Awhile/Bear Shot @ Portal

A Bear was shot and killed last week according to a ranger at the station. Apparently it had been breaking into cars, but was getting too impatient to wait for hikers to LEAVE the car and was aggressivly approaching humans. That's all the info I have.

I have a new BearVault cannister.The lady said that bears can open the older BearVault which has a smaller plastic nipple. The new Vault has a red strip on the lid and a heavier nipple. I can barely open it, but I'm sure I can find a bear that can.FYI for you with older models.

Quitting this mountain for a while to do others. Reason- No-show permits NOT so easy to get this year. The lady at the station said everyone is showing up unlike last year when many permits went unclaimed.

Sleeping in the car at Portal- Yeah, sure! People, if you see a car covered with blankets someone is probably trying to sleep inside it. Please do not park your car at 2:30AM with your brights pointing inside my car!!!!! While you slam doors and holler at each other. I know you're excited and tanked up on coffee, but some people are leaving later than you are. Common courtesy please! I'd do the same for you! I really would.

Bear boxes so full I had to leave food and cooler inside the car. I covered it with a thick quilt. No problems, but I kept one ear open all night.

You need to go over 7 miles to get to significant altitude on Whitney into the 13,000's. If you go to White Mtn, you can get to that altitude in 3 miles, plus no permits, quotas or BEARS!And you can bike it.

See you at the Open House in 2 weeks.

So sorry about the bear. Yea, I know what you mean about people making noise in the parking lot late at night. I don't understand why people sometimes act like they are in the middle of the city when they are not. The permit process is quite annoying I do agree. Consider Split mountain up near Big Pine, a spectactular mountain that you don't hear much about and there is a class 2-3 to the top. The hike to Red Lake isn't that enjoyable but once you are there and the East face comes into full view it is awsome. I was up there Wednesday and there was not a living soul around. I am going to head back down in a few weeks and set up a high camp at Red Lake and spend the whole day exploring high up on the mountain. As a day climb it seems like a bit much. Probably not the best mountain to do alone, If something happens up there you are in big trouble.


Interested?..........

Whitney Portal is Whitney Portal. If you sleep anywhere you are liable to be awakened by people being people, same thing goes for Outpost Camp.

To minimize problems with early AM arrivals, those using their cars as tents should do so in the overflow parking lot. It is away from the road and most want to park as close as possible to the trailhead. Also, eye masks and earplugs work wonders. I really don't have problem sleeping at Whitney Portal any more, other than it being at 8,300'

As for the bear boxes, if they are filled and is see water bottles, books and crap which is not food or food related I will put that stuff on top of the box and put my food inside.

"And you can bike it."

Well, maybe. A couple of years ago, hearing that, I took my bike to White Mountain but didn't get very far. A couple of weeks ago I returned and hiked to the summit, sans bike. While much of the trail is bike-able, much, I think, can be biked only by someone proficient in "trials," and toward the top I wonder whether anyone could bike it, at least not without tremendous effort and probably multiple blown tires, since the trail not only is rocky but is covered with sharp-edged rocks. Portions of the trail have been "repaved" courtesy of small landslides.

Well one less person to deal with. I wish a few more took your advise. Too many newbies on the Mtn. Too much trash left behind. Whats the worst that could happen a Bear breaking into your car because people are stupid enough to leave food in there. "Heck whats another Bear?" One more step closer to extinction. Mankind what a joke.

Mankind what a joke. Do you include yourself in that statement?

How very very sad to hear about this beautiful bear! When Tomcat posted his picture of the garbage overflowing at the dumpsters at the portal..I was very worried about just this thing happening & it did..A bear lost it's life because of some lazy, thoughtless people that did not take the responsibility to dispose of there trash the proper way & leaving trash and food in cars. This bear did not have to loose it's life..it is human caused why it is now dead! Wake up everyone! this is what happens. Bears are very smart and they remember where the food source is once they get it!
Between the garbage being left behind and people complaining about having to pack out their poop and TP...maybe the Forest Service should close down Mt. Whitney for a while..just then maybe some people will start taking responsibility and treating the land and the wildlife that lives in the area with respect!

Sorry for my post and I usually do not rant!...but this news about this bear is very upsetting to me..I have seen it more than once happened where I live because of the garbage problem!!
Please remember....A Fed Bear Is A Dead Bear.....RIP sweet Bear

(Not that I have anything against any of the FS employees - it's probably typical bureaucratic BS.)

We saw another case of trash spread out all over the ground around a can that had probably been "raided" by a bear. Why is it that the FS can't shorten the time between trash pickups during the summer months? Expecting people to go hunting all around the Portal for an can that isn't full is rediculous! (I did it! I know what a waste of time and effort it was.)

And what's with the Pigs in the Toilets? Trash and TP on the floor, pee on the seats, graffiti? Is it time for me to make my "I get it, trash on the mountain" comment again?

A couple of thoughts.

The Rangers said Friday that someone lost their pack to a bear at the Portal Thursday night. Though they had put their food away, the bear found the peanut butter smear on the pack and investigated further by ripping it to shreds.

Arriving at 5am at the Portal on Saturday, we had no problem putting our food in bear box. But did have a problem finding room to throw trash.

Horseshoe Meadows does not have enough bear boxes for the campsites. The camp toilets were ripe and out of TP by Sunday morning. People coming in by the van load at midnight setting their tents up everywhere but tent sites were giggling and making noises well into the morning. (Though we broke camp at 4am quietly for my neighbors, I was not so quiet walking through those late night comers camped scattered along the path to the parking lot/bathrooms.) This is mostly a weekend phenomena, an overflowing camp.

Saw coyotes, rabbits, cows, but no bears there.

Hi We now have four very active bears in the Portal, the one that was shot is back up and walking around I see it every night hitting the trash left out side the trash cans and the very large bear in the area can open the can buy several hits. This is not an agency problem every car has items that will lead to a break in, the trash left outside the full trash cans are left by people not the bears or the agency.Each year the problem starts when the people start leaving food out and by the Fourth of July weekend the cycle starts over and each year its" a bear problem" Who poops on the toilet seats, throws the crap on the walls and leaves the doors open so the rodents take the paper all over the area,

Hikers are about 25% of the users of the area so when you see the problems the wealth needs to be shared, but when you see the parking area next to the pond full at 7AM AND NO ONE IS FISHING ????? how does that look and the cars trucks, in the Hiker parking loaded to overflow and the bags left in the food storage lockers with no date and the items inside leaking out into the storage box and we hear it all day long some one should do something, and who would that Be? not Me said the little blue bird. Thanks Doug

hungry for a meal

I realize most of the trash we saw this weekend was from the "tourist" types - especially noted around the "fishing pond". sometimes they can't make it up to clean the trashcans and bathrooms as promptly as needed on the busy weekends. I think sometimes we need to help police ourselves and our area to keep it clean - even if "we" didn't make the mess. a little effort goes a long way.

On a trail I pick up one piece of trash a day. Doesn't seem like much but it's infinitely better than doing nothing. It doesn't have to be a heroic effort to make a difference.

The entire issue revolves around one thing: money. It takes money to accomplish things, like trash collection and buying toilet paper, and there isn't any.

Here was one study that looked at special use permits, which the study found significantly below market rates.

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/rc97016.pdf

People often say, "raise the fees, improve the service."

"Furthermore, updating and collecting fees are labor-intensive efforts and
would require additional resources. However, since additional fees
collected would generally be returned to the U.S. Treasury—and not
benefit the forest—there is a lack of incentive for the agency to dedicate
the additional resources to address these issues."

I'm in no position to comment on the Inyo, as I have no special knowledge, but on other forests where I volunteer, here is the situation (excluding law enforcement "rangers")

NF#1-no rangers, no trail workers
NF#2-no rangers, 1 trail worker
NF district#3-no rangers, 1 trail worker
NF district #4-no rangers, 1 trail worker
In some cases, volunteers make up a significant workforce, but rarely replace professional, skilled employees.

So, if you want more toilet paper, bring it.

Ken, based on your past posts you obvious have insights and a relationship with the several agencies. I appreaciate your sharing. As I was getting my permits last Friday I overheard someone being told, "No, the Toilets are gone." In so many words the rangers were, I guess the word is relieved. I don't blame them, as that is not my expectation of a ranger, to carry poop. (sidenote, I agree there are better technologies and ways to manage them, with money)

Yet management of the parks seems to have some problems. I do like the relationships with private businesses as they tend to be great stewards. Specifically at Whitney I think Doug and family's business there helps greatly to improve the experience. And regarding trash, anytime I've been there, they are usually loading up a truck full of trash as they do more than their part in cleaning up around the store. (thank you Doug)

Regarding money, it was time to pony up a annual pass renewal as I also spent some time in Yosemite. Even though it's now at $80 I don't mind as I beleive I get more than that back. But I'm dismayed that you state the money doesn't stay in the parks.

Joe

Joe, don't forget, the national parks are a completely separate agency than a national forest. And national forests don't have entry fees.

This past spring, I needed to buy a "snow park" pass to park along the road in the national forest where they clear the snow for parking. The pass is their way of collecting money to pay for the cost of clearing the snow.

So I inquired whether the new $80 annual pass would be honored at the snow-park places. (I was ready to pass along $80 to the local National Forest, since I read that a large percentage of the annual pass stays with the park or agency that collects it.) But unfortunately, I was told that they do not participate in the annual pass program. (And this is one of the national forests Ken is talking about.)

What a bureaucratic mess.

Thanks, Joe.

I want to be clear that I have no special insight or relationship to the parks (other than getting to know some people), all my contacts are on the national forests. Since they are administered by two different Agencies (USFS-Dept of Ag, Parks-Dept of Interior), there are some surprising differences.

For example, the Wilderness Act, which is the main Law that directs how things are done in Wilderness, leaves room for interpretation by the Agencies. It specifies that the Agencies must use the least amount of technology neccessary to accomplish tasks. To cut trees on the Nat. Forests, that is defined by the USFS as a hand saw. To cut trees in a Nat. Park, it is defined by the Park Service as a chain saw. This is a HUGE difference, and a very fundamental issue.

fyi: Sno-Parks are run by the state, not the feds...

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=1233

Unless I am confused about the line of conversation here, the America the Beautiful - The National Parks and Federal Recreational Lands Annual Pass covers all lands managed by the USDA Forest Service, National Parks, Bureau of Land Management, Fish and Wildlife Service and Bureau of Reclamation. The Cleveland National Forest, Sierra National Forest and the Inyo National Forest all reference this pass and recognize it's use within their jurisdictions.

However, this only covers entrance fees and standard amentity fees but does not cover fees for permit reservations and campground sites.

I for one do not believe money is the issue for the human caused issues of overflowing trash bins and open bear lockers. The problem is human ignorance and indifference.

Solar toliets work in Little Yosemite Valley because they are 6000 ft lower than Trail Camp. There may be a technology solution for higher altitudes but we will still have them used as waste receptacles for plastic bags, freeze-dried packaging, feminine napkins and any other article people are too lazy to carry back home with them. If you brought in your vehicle, take it home with you and dump it in the trash receptacle that you already pay to have emptied.

Two years ago I camped on the Southeast side of the stream below Duck Lake along the JMT. There were two couples camping in the same area and I noticed over th course of several hours they were all going to the same spot to relieve themselves. As I looked for a spot of my own I noticed that their chosen spot was littered with something just shy of a dozen wads of TP laying around on the surface. I approached them and asked them to pickup up their waste or burn it in the bonfire they had going. From their response you would think I had under evaluated their IQ.

Most of these issues are from the lack of exercising personal responsibility for one's own acts. Unfortunately the bears and responsible are paying the cost.

Ken wrote: To cut trees on the Nat. Forests, that is defined by the USFS as a hand saw. To cut trees in a Nat. Park, it is defined by the Park Service as a chain saw.

I would love to see the national forests try to tell the fire fighters they could not use their chain saws.

nesnahj wrote: > fyi: Sno-Parks are run by the state, not the feds...

I guess that would explain why the national forest offices stopped selling the passes last year. ...But then it makes me wonder why it is the forest rangers who check the cars parked there.

ML wrote: I approached them and asked them to pickup up their waste or burn it in the bonfire they had going. From their response you would think I had under evaluated their IQ.
I suppose that is why Yosemite National Park several years ago was telling JMT hikers they had to carry out their used TP.

Doug stated "... the one that was shot is back up and walking around I see it every night hitting the trash left out side the trash cans ...."

Sounds like conflicting information as to whether the bear was actually killed.

BruinDave