Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board New for the 2007 Season

Just a reminder that a few Inyo National Forest policies change in 2007:



UPDATE: Also note the following changes in campground reservations in 2007:



UPDATE: North Fork day hikes


UPDATE: Camping reservation notice

Hi Fred, I see the info on the lottery posted on the Inyo NF site , but where is the North Fork day hike information?

What? A permit for the North Fork? Wonderful.

SC, The North Fork day permit info is in VersatileFred's link.

RK, At least there is no limit on NF day permits, so you should be guaranteed to get the couple dozen that you’ll need

I haven’t read the whole notice yet, but did they cite a reason for adding the NF day permits. Environmental impact? Not that many folks dayhike up the NF.

Does anyone know if you will be able to descend the Main Trail with just a North Fork permit?

I do hate the extra bureaucracy

RG

My guess would be that it's probably related to the damage that's being done to the area. This is probably the precursor to limiting the numbers that will be able to go up in a day.

If so, we've brought this on ourselves. I've ranted and raved about the number of use trails that have appeared over the years. And the last time I was up, I had to "fish" some branches out of the bushes across the trail from where the FS people had blocked off another cut in the slope just above the North Fork junction. Apparently, someone didn't like that they'd have to walk a few more feet uphill (around the tree) and tossed the things aside. (And while I'm at it...why are there now about FIVE different paths to the start of the Rockwell Shortcut? Bob's original path not good enough for you?)

I do hope they don't start requiring a special permit to exit off the Main Trail side. That is one fun loop.


Here are the relevant NF statements:

Day hikes accessing Mt. Whitney via the North Fork of Lone Pine creek are now requested to carry a North Fork of Lone Pine day hike permit.

Do I need a reservation for a North Fork of Lone Pine day hike permit? Visitors who will be day hiking the North Forkof Lone Pine creek to access Mt. Whitney are now requested to carry a North Fork of Lone Pine day hike permit. Reservations are not needed for these permits. Visit the Eastern Sierra InterAgency Visitor Center to pick up your permit along with the human waste management pack-it-out kit.

Visitors that will day hike the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek are now being requested to carry a North Fork of Lone Pine day hike permit. This affects all visitors that will hike beyond Lower Boy Scout Lake. There is no quota set for these permits, so no reservation is needed.

When do I pick up my reserved permit? Bring your reservation confirmation letter to an Inyo National Forest permit issuing location to pick up your wilderness permit. You may pick up your reserved permit as early as two days before you enter the wilderness. For the main Mt. Whitney trail and the North Fork of Lone Pine trail you must pick up your permit at the Eastern Sierra InterAgency Visitor Center, near Lone Pine. If you have not confirmed or picked up your permit by the deadline, your reservation will be canceled. If your trip travels to Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Park your permit will not be available in the night-drop box, you will have to pick up the permit in person during open hours.

I have been emailing INF staff about the permit system, and just got some answers yesterday (therefore my surprise when Fred posted -- apparently the info was on the web before they got around to emailing)

But to elaborate: The permits, both dayhike and overnight, must be picked up (or at least confirmed by telephone) by noon the day before entry. What they didn't say on the web is that at 2 PM, those unconfirmed permits become available to everyone else. I am not sure is you must be at the Lone Pine visitors center to get one, or if being at any of the other INF offices would be good enough (for those who might be travelling from the north).

The other thing I tried to request was regarding the Trailcrest quota. The North Fork dayhikers technically do apply to the quota, but it is not enforced because they feel that very few hikers actually make the summit and exit via the main trail. Requiring everyone to carry a permit will give them a way of counting heads in this area.

I tried to use some logic, and asked that, since North Fork dayhikers did not need a Trailcrest exit permit, then anyone else exiting via Trailcrest and not spending the night on the Main Trail should also given a free pass. That suggestion was about as welcome as a bear joining your campsite at dinner time. Oh well, I tried.

Hi Steve, I assume that you found the link in my original post. I just happened to run across it last night.

The exit quota topic is interesting. The Inyo NF web site used to talk about exit quotas as an additional constraint on being able to reserve an overnight permit, but a walk-in permit for a day hike could not affect the reserved overnight permits (since they were already reserved before the date of the hike). It could only affect the walk-in quota. As you say, it probably is not worth dealing with at this point in time.

RichardP,

As I read it, the NF day permit is required for going beyond LBSL.

The main area of environmental impact that I see in the NF is between the NF creek/main trail junction and LBSL, and not really covered by the new NF day permit 2007 requirements.

So I’m not sure if environmental impact is the main reason behind the new day permit rules. Plus I don’t think the few NF dayhikers are contributing much to the impact.

I’m not sure what point I’m trying to make, I’m just curious about the logic behind the new rules. Hmmm, logic and INF policy decisions, what was I thinking

Anyhow, I know these are going to be the new rules so I’ll get and frame my 1st NF day permit.

Times are a changing,
RG

First, I have no priviledged knowledge of this, but I can imagine how this all could have come down:

Whitney is the biggest issue for the Inyo, by a large margin. I can imagine the managers describing the parade of climbers, and the discussion of the routes and number, and the supervisor asking, "It's not clear to me how many people go up the NF on day hikes, how many is that?"

(this is called a pregnant silence)

"Uhhhh.....we don't keep track of that"

Or:

"I see we have the chance to orient and educate all the people who climb Whitney, right?"

"Uhhh.....all except one group"

Or:

"I see that for people going up the NF on an overnite trip, 78% ask significant questions....doesn't it stand to reason that we'll have the same percentage of people asking questions on day hikes?"

I often drive in early morning, dayhike via the NF, and drive back all in the same day. So now I have to kill a whole day the day before my dayhike just so I can pick up a permit? That's just not going to happen. Self-issue is one thing (I can deal with that) but now it's not really possible to drive up for the day. Very lame. I guess I can wait till the permit office opens but then I'll put myself at risk for the afternoon thunderstorms. Hmmmm. I wonder if I can sue if I get hit by lightening. Oh wait, I'll be dead.

-Rick

alot of us drive up at 3-4am to arrive - hope they can make these drop box pickups again - fortunately this year it shows "requested" and not "required" - who knows in the following years

So does this mean we can't even dayhike Thor Peak without a permit? Oh and of course this also means a permit for Russell & Carillon.

-Rick

> fortunately this year it shows "requested" and not "required"

Unless we hear otherwise, I would assume it means required.

> So does this mean we can't even dayhike Thor Peak without a permit? Oh and of course this also means a permit for Russell & Carillon.

The web page says anywhere past Lower Boy Scout Lake.

Like Tomcat_rc, I am assuming the night pickup will be available. (I have emailed INF requesting clarification on these two "assumptions".)

"Oh and of course this also means a permit for Russell & Carillon."
Carillon Creek bushwhack

Good point about the semantics..

"Yeah Mr. Ranger..I considered the "request" to carry the permit..and decided against it..instead I brought these tasty Fruit-Rollups..want one??"

:p

BeachAV8R

I also caught the "requested" vs "required". Like others have said I hope they have night time pick up available for those of us who like to get to the TH around 4 am. That would truly suck to have to burn the day before just to get the dayhike permit for the NF. Of course, many of us saw this coming eventually. It has been the topic of many conversations with other climbers. When it finally came it reverberates like thunder in the climbing community. Eventually I suppose they will slap a quota on the NF as well and that will really be a shame.

I can't say that I really mind the "monitoring" aspect of the process. I am a conservationist at heart, and I understand that land managers must have information to interpret what is going on, and to make decisions about what to do about problems that they encounter.

However, the issue of quotas brings up a whole other issue. Quotas are almost invariably connected to what happens in an area. When we have people ripping up the N.Fork, turning a pristine riparian area into a mass of user trail....how can we complain? We INVITE management by quota. What is the alternative?

We police ourselves. Not by policing, but by education. It breaks my heart the USFS budget cuts that are occurring, year after year....but the practical consequence is that there are not sufficient people on the ground to manage the resources. On the forest where I volunteer, the volunteer rangers outnumber the paid.

Let me suggest a model: After the death last october, there were a lot of suggestions as to what to do, including signs all over the place.
This community put forth an educational effort that got out the word, on this board, about the dangers and expections for the upper mountain THIS october. A significant number of people changed their plans as a result, and notice: there were no epics! Maybe we were just lucky, but I prefer to think that this community had an impact.

Also, the Inyo is currently under court order, with respect to quotas. They are required to set levels for every trailhead, based upon usage and damage, as a result of a lawsuit, BROUGHT BY HIKERS.

Ken,

You indicated that (paraphrasing):
“Inyo is currently under court order to set trailhead quotas based on lawsuits BROUGHT BY HIKERS"

Just curious, what sort of lawsuit did a hiker file that resulted in setting TH quotas?

- Respiratory illness due to too much trail dust?
- Assault & Battery after getting stabbed by a trekking pole?
- Emotional trauma after tripping over a discarded WAG bag?
- Mental distress after seeing their favorite camp site taken?

I can’t imagine. I guess I’m litigiously challenged
Cheers,
RG

Rick -- I hurt my ankle last summer on a rock below Forrester Pass. Clearly, someone should have cleaned that thing up! Of course, I need to sue SEKI, not the Inyo NF. :-)

Litigiously challenged? Just remember that "you can sue anyone for anything" and you'll be fine.

Rick K. - No, you won't be dead if you get struck by lightening. But getting struck by lightning will probably do the trick.