Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board How "scary" is the Mountaineer's Route?

"and maybe will do a bit of Class 3 climbing at Joshua Tree too to get more comfortable and skilled with it."

Wrong strategy. Going to Joshua Tree to do class 3 climbing is like going to a world-class restaurant to try the water.

What you want are skills that are not at the level you are going to be doing, but better than what you are going to be doing. If you have low class 5 skills, you will dance up the class three without trouble. If you've only done class 3, you will be working at the limits of your ability, and that is always a little dicey....especially as you will likely not have practiced your class 3 at 14,000 feet, with thousands of feet of exposure, after ascending 6,000 feet, in a tired and dehydrated state.

You want a margin of safety. You have a year to create that margin.

Well, I know what you are saying about learning skills that are beyond what I'll need, in order to build that margin of safety. Hopefully, I can do that with the rock climbing classes and maybe do a little real climbing outdoors in Georgia over the next year to improve some basic skills that would serve me well on the MR.

With Joshua Tree, I'm only going to be there a day or two and my main goal is to hike up Pinto Mountain which will probably be fairly easy. I won't have time to really do too much else, although I am going to try to do one or two other hikes.

Probably the most aggressive rock "climbing" I've done is Mastadon Peak at Joshua Tree...that is just pretty basic class 3, but it was a moderate challenge to a total newbie like me. I did Teutonia Peak in Mojave too and it was a slight challenge, meaning I was a bit out of my "comfort zone" when I did them. I'm not counting the snowy/icy Angels Landing trail because the conditions made it too stressful and I should have turned back on that one. But that was a humbling and educational experience that may help me making better decisions in the future.

So maybe I'll do a bit more easy to moderate Class 3 that on this trip to Joshua Tree in January. I'm going to Anza-Borrego too and there are lots of rocks there as well, so it will be nice to be even the slightest bit more prepared after some instruction this autumn from the beginner rock climbing classes.

Then next summer I can try the MR. I don't think I'll ever be a big rock climber though because I was getting dizzy looking at snownymph's Mount Russell pics and I just don't think I'm adventurous enough for that. But maybe after years of progressively more aggressive hikes, it might be possible.

The Mountaineers route does not require ropes and specialized rock climbing experience. Many have gone up the MR, men women and children, with an experienced guide.

The Forest Service information explains that the MR is for people seeking a greater adventure. It is certainly not for most people. It is not just an alternative when you can't get a regular trail permit.

If a person says they are comfortable with a trail I don't encourage them to try out the MR. But if a person doesn't mind a little use trail, combined with some cross country scrambling, and hands on climbing, the MR might be for them. The MR is definately more adventurous then the trail.

It would be a good thing to hook up with others going, who know the way. There are some places, like the Ebersbacher ledges and the area above the notch up to the summit that do require class three climbing, and the knowledge of where to climb.

An important issue is either going with someone or making sure through pictures and trail guides to stay on route. There are many ways and places off trail which could get one in danger. Some of the time you make your way without a trail.

Last year Beach put together a good list of trip reports and photos of the MR

http://www.mt-whitney.info/viewtopic.php?t=126

Thanks...I'll go through those links and pics and trip reports and study them closely. I still think a GPS track would help at least a little as well. It would at least help steer me to the right notch or more than a few feet off the route.

Going with someone who has hiked the trail before would be a great option, but it isn't always possible to coordinate such things if one's schedule isn't very flexible. But I'll certainly consider that and it would take the stress out of the routefinding (which seems to be the greatest challenge of the route to first-timers.

tchiker, I understand schedules do not always permit one to hook up with others.

My comments were for people in general, who might be reading this thread.

I personally see no problem with you learning the route and going by yourself. My father went up his first time with much less information then in now available, just a few pictures and a general description from a book.

At the Whitney Portal store there is a book called Mt. Whitney: Mountain lore from the portal store. It has a very detailed guide of just how to get up the MR. With that and a look through the pictures in the link, you should have no problem finding your way.

I have to admit one thing. I doubt I would ever walk up the regular trail again. It is just too long, too crowded and comes up around the back. What you see is nothing like the Mt. Whitney poster you will buy and hang in your front room. For that experience, the Mountaineers route provides just what you are looking for.

My father took me up the MR when I was ten. With his help we made it. An experience I will long remember.

tchiker needs to contact me, tater in Atlanta for the beta on the whole Whitney MR deal. I spend a little time there, summited in the past, will be going this winter and am local in Atlanta. He could also contact Kurt Wedberg and go guided the first time. My email is michaeletate@charter.net. Kurt is also running a trip to the Mexico volcanos in early Nov that would be good for the skills training necessary for Whitney with a little more altitude.

Michelle, I'd totally forgotten that Kurt goes out to Atlanta and gives talks in one of the stores down there! Perfect hookup for him, as well!!

Jessica, I agree with you completely from the pics I've seen from the route. It looks like the MR approaches Whitney from the most aesthetically pleasing side and you are treated to more and more imposing views as it looms closer and closer with every step.

I know what you mean about the main trail...all those switchbacks would frustrate me and I think the crowds would detract from the nature/wilderness experience as well. So an ascent up the MR is a clear choice although I suppose I might exit down the MWT just to see some different scenery...however after that tough climb, I still might opt for the 5 mile exit route rather than an 11 mile one.

tater, I'll definitely e-mail you...that's cool that you are a fellow Atlantan. I'd love a few more MR tips and I'd be curious if you hike in this region much as well.

Thanks to everyone for all the tips and advice. I have about twelve months to plan for the trip, but I've already learned so much in the last two or three days from this site. I've been glued to the Internet the last couple of days reading posts and looking at amazing photos, etc. I probably need to "unplug" and get outside some...well, I'm going to hike some in North Georgia this week and I'll have fun thinking of it as some early "training" for Whitney.

Have you thought about climbing up the MR and descending the Main Trail? I'm sure navigating the main trail at night would be much safer than the MR for a beginner.

Ha!...there isn't going to be any "night" involved...I'll just leave at sunrise and speed up to the top and back down before it gets dark....

...but seriously...yeah, I thought about it and it's a possibility. I guess it depends on if I camp overnight near the top (is it iceberg lake?) and how much time I have. I may just go off down the John Muir or High Sierra trail for a day or two if I have time and that's what I want to do. My trip is still in the very earliest of planning stages right now.

I hope to do some Sierra hiking for at least four or five days if not a few more, but I'm not sure how much time I'll be able to get off to get out there. I'll probably do Whitney near the end of the trip though so I can first get acclimated better to the altitude on less challening hikes.

I wonder if I should get some of that high altitude medication that people are mentioning in other threads? If I get some and just take it when I get there, I won't know how my body would react to the altitude with no medication, but then again, do I care that much? I'm actually very curious, but perhaps it'd be best to just play it safe and try to minimize the effects with the drug and have a greater probability of enjoying the trip more? I'll have to consider this more.

Good morning TC -
Fear is good (one of your previous posts). It creates an awareness that is otherwise unattainable. My buddy took his daughter (11 or 12 at the time) up the MR, and I will take mine when she is ready. I say this because I really think you will be fine mainly because you are obviously taking note of everything being posted here. I would venture to say if you stay on your current "path" to the MR it will be a very enjoyable experience. I took it very seriously as well and all these fine people and their information sharing made the difference for me. As Jessica stated - I will always use the MR for my Whitney experiences - lots of fun - at least for me. And you have the opportunity to summit some other peaks around Iceberg Lake (worthy of another post). Anyway - its no fun learning of someone having a problem or worse, so I tend to approach all this from worst case scenario. Over prepare and limit chances of disaster. Its a tough day - that's for sure, two weeks before Whitney I did Half Dome in 8.5 hours (4800 ft or so and about 15 miles), went cycling afterwards and drove 3 hours home - no problem. I did Whitney MR and felt like ..... well lets say I wasn't driving anywhere for a few hours... lol. But doing the MR in a day was my ultimate day (at least with this little hobby - of which I have many). I can't imagine a better way for me to be on top of the loewr 48 states. I can't wait to take my daughter up.

My point.... its your experience, make the best of it. Have a great day.

tchiker-

regarding your point about acclimitization and the possibility of taking some drugs to help with it, suggest you do a search on this board as there are many long discussions about that here. The short answer is that 2 things have been shown in real clinical studies (and many others in anectdotal observations that you should take with a big grain of salt) to help with AMS: diamox and gingko biloba. Diamox, a prescription drug, has a number of side effects which vary in mix and severity by individual and dose. Gingko is available in health food type places. With either, would suggest that you take some first long before you climb to see how you tolerate it.

The best ways to prevent AMS beyond spending time at altitude are listed by Kurt Wedburg in his post earlier: hydration, pace and food would be my top 3.

I live in Columbus Ga and have done the Mountaineers route 3 times the most recent being this past July in the “snowy conditions”.. My biggest suggestion is to spend some time in the N GA Mountains on some of the steep trails (ie Duncan Ridge Trail) to get use to the steepness of the Mountaineers route. I have lead the climb each time due to my climbing experience but each time I have taken people with no experience and we have made it with out incident. The last trip I had a guy from Miami and one from Columbus both with little to no experience. My second suggestion is if you have no route finding experience go with someone who does. I am not saying they have to know the Whitney route they just need general route finding experience. Once you are above Lower Boy Scout Lake there are numerous “trails” from everyone choosing there own rout and you will need to be able to look at the land and figure out which one is best for you. On all three of my trips I have done it different (based on who was with me). My third suggestion is start looking at maps so you know what the lay of the land is. Learning the map before you go will save you tons of time later. My final piece of advice is when in doubt back out. Any good mountaineer will tell you not to get into something unless you know you can get out of it. If you are getting into something you are not comfortable with or do not think you can do back off and find a different route. Live to fight another day..

Well, I guess I didn't even really know what "route finding" meant until I read your post. I thought it meant following a hard to see trail, but now I've figured out that it means finding a passable route through a wilderness area.

I guess I have little to no route finding experience, so if I don't go with someone else, I'll just take your advice about not getting in over my head. I'll leave early, so I'll have plenty of time to backtrack and go a different way if necessary.

Having done the MR several times over the past several years with a variety of snow levels (as early as March and as late as two days ago) I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND NOT doing it the first time without a veteran of the route accompanying you.

I have read the description in the Whitney Mountain Lore book. It gives a detailed description of where to go. It seems to be as good as any available, since it came from many people combining their efforts.

Route finding is not that difficult if you come prepared. But some of the time you are following the trail and sometimes you are not. For example, just above Iceberg lake there are two general routes, like an unside down Y. Early in the year people tend to take the right or north side since it is full of snow. Latter in the year they take the left. There is no trail for the first 400-500 feet or so. You just make your way through the rocks http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/221318818/1221325832061435028HPBNhi until you come into the main MR coulour. In the center of the Coulour there is a faint trail weaving up.

Also above the notch, at 14100 feet, there is no trail.
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/221318818/1221327865061435028OGIbPy
You start your climb on the left side. 50-100 feet up you can stay on the left side and crosss over to the right almost at the summit ridge. Or you can cross over lower below the snowfield. Either works but you have to choose.

Yes, I know it would be ideal to go with someone who knows the route, but I've read many trip reports from people who did not know it previously, and it sounds like they did just fine. I plan to do a great deal of research beforehand and study photos, etc.

What I've read echoes what Andrews said above about there just being a few critical junctures when finding the route is somewhat difficult, so if I can just prepare and handle those, that aspect should be fine.

I'm definitely going to get "Mount Whitney: Mountain Lore" and study it before the trip and there are many accounts on the Web to study as well. I don't think I'll have major problems with it although I still think some of the more exposed climbing near the top will be a little stressful for me. But nothing I can't deal with and still have a good time.

I wonder if I should get some special rock climbing shoes to use for when the climbing gets the most challenging? I hate to spend the money, but I could always sell them on ebay afterwards and not be out too much cash. It seems like it'd be easier than climbing in my hiking boots. Although I hate to add too much extra weigh to my pack with the shoes, climbing helmet, etc.

I plan to take off my pack during the roughest climbs too, because it throws off my balance too much. Then I can just hoist it up on a rope.

This may all be overkill planning, but I'd rather be overprepared and comfortable, than underprepared and nervous. If I get there and it's a cakewalk, then I will just be relieved and probably won't mind the extra weight of the items too much.

tc, you don't need special shoes or a rope.

Last year I went up in standard hiking boots, and several in my group just wore trail runners. We all did fine.

Don't over-analyze the hike. Just study the route descriptions and make sure you follow them.

I agree with Steve. There is no reason to over analyze the hike. Just come prepared and you will do fine. There are so many good pictures on line these days that you should know where to go.

Regular good shoes are plenty. We have never needed to lift our gear up on the regular Mountaineers route.

Remember if the climbing is very difficult or above your level, you are probably off the recommended route.

Tc,

You sure your not a troll? As mentioned above, you are way over analyzing this. I imagine the mountaineers route has been hiked in flip flops at some point over the years so don't spend the extra $$ on climbing shoes or a rope.

I will be heading up to do the East Buttress next week, here is my list of equipment.

1 pair of ancient Pataguci guide pants
1 lightweight Capaline shirt
1 mid weight synchilla
1 windbreaker jacket
1 baseball cap
1 pair sunglasses
1 pair warm fleece gloves
1 water bladder
1 water filter
1 150 9mm rope
10 carabiners
6 pieces of protection and assorted slings
1 pair of trail running shoes (not bringing climbing shoes)
Assorted snacks

We are doing the route up and back to the car in a day and I hope to keep my pack under or at 20lbs including the rope.

Sometimes light and fast is safer than over packing and over analyzing.

Plan on leaving early.
Plan on feeling like crap the first mile or so.
Plan on getting at least some form of altitude sickness and if you don't then even better.
Drink often.
Bring a USGS Topo map.
Don't rely on GPS, you really do not need it. A million people before you have climbed it without GPS or a map and compass. If all else fails follow another group, I can almost guarantee there will be at least 3-4 other groups heading up at the time of year you are going. Don't interfere with there experience unless they invite you to join them.
Relax have fun and enjoy the hike.