Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Lightweight Packing...

Some people were discussingi pack weight on a separate thread and, although it's been mentioned on the board before, I thought it would be wise to bring it up again for newcomers.

To give a brief background of my experience, I've been backpacking seriously for just over 7 years now, with an emphasis more on mountaineering in the last 2 years. When you first start and walk into your local REI, EMS, or Sports Chalet, you are inundated with NUMEROUS products that you will deem as "necessary."

I was one of those people who, my first time up Whitney, went with a 50+ pound pack for a one night stay. I'll never forget, after dropping my enormous pack off at Trail Camp, getting up to Trail Crest and seeing this couple in their 60's jogginig along with tiny little backpacks on their way down for the summit. I asked them where they had camped, and they quickly told me they were headed back to the Portal! I couldn't believe it. Here I was in my mid 20's, whooped, and in front of me was this couple nearly 3 times my age BLOWING PAST ME!

That got me thinking... then there was a post on this board that Bob R. put together with his "overnight" summer pack weight at 11 pounds! I was aghast. I couldn't believe it. I went out and bought a kitchen scale and weighed all my backpacking stuff.

It's been about 1-2 years since then, with a bunch of money spent in the process, and I'm now right about the same with Bob for an overnight pack. My pack for my recent Mt. Russel trip was as follows:

Golite Dawn backpack: 14oz
Plain Bladder for Water: 4oz
Capilene Top: 5oz
CapileneBottoms:7oz
Fleece Jacket:1lb 7oz
Golite Ether: 3.5 oz
Rain Pants: 6.5 oz
Windstopper Hat: 2oz
Extra Socks: 3.5oz
Headlamp: 3oz
Camera: 6.5oz
Map and Compass:2oz
TP:2oz
Sunscreen:2oz
Hand Sanitizer: 2oz
Bug Spray: 2oz
First Aid Kit: 5oz
Duct Tape: 2oz
Helmet: 14oz
Water: 2lbs
Food: 2lbs

Total: 10.8 pounds

(This was for an estimated 12 hour hike (even though it only took about 11 hours) from the Portal to the summit of Russel, summit of Carillion, then back to the portal in day).

If I wanted to overnight, I could have added my sleeping bag (14oz), bivy sack (9oz), and a closed cell pad (12oz) for a total right around 13 pounds.

In my opinion, packing lighter has made the outdoors much more enjoyable. And by not putting the added stress on my body multiple times throughout the year, hopefully I'll be able to spend more of my life doing it.

Thanks to those people on this board who've helped me with "trimming the excess."

Happy hiking,

Gusto

The only thing missing for backpacking is the required bear resistant canister which adds a minimum of 20 oz.

I'd replace the fleece with a MH Phantom, FF Hyperion or WM Flight jacket and save a ~3/4 pound and pick up some additional warmth.

I am a believer in a lighter weight pack but you need a certain amount of experience before you can go light. I know I can go up the trail with 25# and be a heck of a lot safer than a lot of folks going up the trail with 50#.

agreed guys. I have been using liightweight techniques now for 3 years. I will never go back to the more "traditional" methods of backpacking. I do believe that with the right knowledge, one can be even safer than a traditional backpacker. I am doing Whitney to Miter Basin and out at Horshoe Meadow next week with a baseweight of 12.3 lbs. and that is with a Ursack Hybrid.

Good idea for a post!

and here is my list. If anyone wants to ask questions, please feel free! I love talking about this.

Granite Gear Vapor Trail 32oz
Balaclava 1.4 oz.
Bandanna 1 oz
Gossamer Gear Spinn Chaps 1.6 oz
Integral Designs Sil Poncho 4.9 oz
Montane Featherlite Smock 3.5
Montbell Down Inner Jacket 8.8 oz
Mosquito Head Net .60 oz
Mountain Hardwear Liner Gloves 1.4 oz
Short Sleeve Shirt 5.9 oz
Running Shorts 4.8 oz.
Smartwool Beanie 2 oz.
Smartwool Socks 2.4 oz
Stuff Sack 1.9 oz (this also double as a pillow)
Platypus 1.8 ltr. 1.2 oz
Snowpeak 600 Mug 3.4 oz
Emergency Kit 6.9 (this includes my ten essentials and a few other survival items)
First Aid Kit 4.5 oz
Ursack W/Hybrid Insert 22 oz
Snow Peak 110 Fuel Cannister (empty)
Snow Peak Giga Power Stove 3.2 oz
32 oz Nalgene Container with Pre Filter for Steripen
Steripen 7.4 oz
Gossamer Gear Ground Cloth 1.5 oz.
Henry Shires Tarp Tent Virga 27 oz
Titanium Tent Stakes 1.4 oz
Gossamer Gear Nighlite 3/4 Sleeping Pad 8.2 oz
WM Ultralight Sleeping Bag 26 oz
Toiletry (toothpaste, etc) 7.3 oz
Trowel and Tp 2.9 oz

This is what is carried on my back. This is what is referred to as "base weight", note that I have not listed food, water carried, or the weight of fuel. These are comnsumables and the are not a constant weight. With this gear list I can do a weeks trip from April to Oct.

Note the link on the other topic: "Interesting topics" , that talks about lightweight backpacking, and that many people carrying heavier weights actually are less safe and less comfortable.

(I just found this page from Ripley's Belive It or Not...)

All day alpine hike gear list (circa 1979):

Wear:
Tube socks
Sears hiking/work boots
Levi jeans
Flannel shirt
Cheap aviator sunglasses
Hat (if it could be found)

Carried in flannel shirt pocket:
Ham & Cheese sandwich: 9 oz.

Water cup = hands (0 oz.)
Water filter = digestive system (0 oz.)

Start time = whenever
Turn around time = stomach rumbling/sunset (whichever came first)
Documentation = scrapes, bruises, scars and stories

(Pretty weird, huh?)

I came down the main trail Monday with Doug Sr. He had taken the "kids" from the store up the MR. Anyway, Doug's wearing Levi's, no hat or glasses, I think a flannel shirt, and has a water bottle hanging off his belt loop. And he's leaving guys with all the high tech gear in the dust. I guess experience takes precedence over equipment.

Gusto - Why duct tape?

I brought the duct tape for two reasons. The first reason was because the pair of shoes that I was wearing had the sole starting to separate from the base of the shoe. I superglued it before I left home, but you never know! The second reason I had the duct tape was was due to my new Golite Pack. I wasn't sure how it would handle being scraped across rocks and going through brushy areas, and I didn't want to be a couple of miles from the trailhead with my stuff hanging out of the pack.

I have to tell you though, the Golite's fabric for the Dawn is much more abrasion resistant than I thought it would be. A couple of times I thought FOR SURE I was going to rip it, but I had no problems. The pack is much more durable than what I thought.

By the way, I'm glad people are enjoying the post, and I was glad to see that "experience" has been mentioned more than once on this thread. Most of the people who I see "going ultralight" have logged some miles under their belts. It's always important to know what your own limits are. That said, I wish I would have had someone show me from a more "ultralight" perspective early on!

Gusto

Here's my gear for a 3 day, winter conditions (expected) trip to Mt. Williamson. (If there are two numbers after the description the first is in pounds, the 2nd in ounces). The total weight was around 40 pounds, but that included 13 pounds of mountaineering gear, 6 pounds of food, and 2 pounds of water. That's a base weight of 19pounds for 3 days of winter conditions!

Packs lbs. oz.
BD Shadow Pack 3 10
NF Fissioni 2 3
Pad - Inflatable 2 7
PAD - CLOSED CELL 13
BD Lighthouse 3 3
Stakes - Aluminum 3
Guylines 2
Nalgene Bottle 6
1 Liter playpus bladders(2) 1.8
Water - 2L 4 4
Jetboil 14
Jetboil Cannister(2) 13

Spoon (plastic) 1
Knife - Swiss Army 3
Matches 1
Fleece Jacket 1 7
Down Jacket 1 8
Fleece Pants 11.5
Blue Ridge Rain Jacket 12.5
Windstopper Hat 2
Gaiters - High 11
Manzella Gloves 1
Green Socks 4

BD Stratos Glvoes 12
Camera 6.5
Toothbrush 1
Toothpaste 2
TP 2
Sunscreen 2
Clean Wipe 3
Emergency Blanket 2
First Aid Kit 5
Duct Tape 2
Airtech Light Cramons 16
Ice Axe 1 4
Helmet 14
Pickets(2) 22
Webbing 10
Carabiners (nonlocking) - 2 6
Carabiners (locking)-2 8
Food-2.5days 6
Harness 14
Maps 0.8
Compass 1.2

Totals 23 275.3
True Total in pounds 40.20625

So, I've carried 70# packs and 30# packs and it didn't seem drastically different to me. With heavier packs my pace is slower, but I just look around at the scenery more. Really, once the weight's on my back, it's a part of my body, and some people carry around that much in body weight every day. If you train properly your muscles carry the extra weight instead of your joints.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to characterize backpackers as "lightweight" at all. It seems more like a description of gear than a type of backpacking, like no-impact or long-distance. I don't quite understand the hype about going lightweight. Honestly, I wish I saw as many people excited to talk about no/lo-impact camping (and how enjoyable that is).

But if we're going to talk about lightening your load, does anyone have any good tips? I mean other than buying titanium/carbon fiber gear I can't afford or packs that can't possibly carry a week of food. Just down-to-earth tricks for cutting some pounds.

My tips would be to leave the trowel at home and grab a stick. Also, there are awesome alcohol stoves you can make at home that only weigh a few ounces. But I'm not sure how fuel weight compares, and if you're in a fire-danger area the flame can get a little high. And, iodine doesn't taste that bad for how light and easy it is to deal with. Aquamira seems a bit more of a hassle, although I'm curious about Steripen and it's ease and effectiveness.

sbslowpoke --- that is great!

larissahorn, there is an infinite difference when carrying a load that is 70 pounds versus a load that is 20-30 pounds. I know because when I first started backpacking 7 years ago, I too was person that had a huge 7000ci pack, a two person tent for comfort, and a sleeping bag rated at 5 degrees and weighed 3 pounds, and a nearly 3 pound sleeping pad. I can do a two night three day trip with a 10 lbs baseweight and cover more miles per day than when I did with a heavy load. I camp to hike, instead of hike to camp. A three day trip covering 30-50 miles is quite doable when your body is not stressed to the limits with so much weight on your back. I am 42 in reasonable shape and when I stop for the day, my body does not hurt one bit. My knees feel better, my feet feel better...heck I don't even bring sandals to change out of because I am not carrying 3 lbs boots on my feet. Try this. Go to www.backpackinglight.com and do some research. If you like what you see, ask me more questions. Going light and be cost effective too. You can buy a tarp for $60, Bivy to cover your bag for $50 something, packs cost around $100 to $150. You can make your own gear, or use cottage industry businesses that are making great cutting edge stuff. Packs like ULA, Six Moon Designs, Go Lite. Tarpents like Henry Shires Tarptents, and many more are out there. The most important piece of gear though is your head.

and I use Steripen too. Aqua Mira does something nasty to my bowels. There is a new Steripen coming on the market in Oct. that has rechargeable batteries and weighs 4 oz.

Gusto, thanks for starting this thread. The list of your gear is interesting and I'm glad you brought up duct tape. This is something most hikers would never think of taking, but I always bring some along. Last summer while doing an overnighter in the White Mtns. in New Hampshire, the strap to my backpack broke. I guess it just frayed down form usage over the years.

I had nothing to secure the strap, so I had to hike 17 miles with the pack and all the contents in my hands. I was able to dump some of the items into my husband's backpack, but not much. Anyone who has hiked downhill on trails like Mt. Mousilauke will tell you that you need both of your hands free to traverse trails like that.

It taught me a valuable lesson. I noticed that the REI store in Arcadia now carries duct tape for packs which is very light and small. I know people think, "My backpack strap will never break off!" but they do. It's only a couple of ounces and worth it.

Candace,

Glad you like the thread... ahhhh, the White Mountains. Just spoke with my friends back east who are doing Mt. Isolation today. Can't wait to go back and do the Presidential Traverse in a day!

As for the duct tape, it really can be used for A LOT of things. One application I hadn't really thought of that someone mentioned was a replacement for mole skin in case of a blister!

Gusto

kenny et al,

I've been backpacking for many years too and have done plenty of 15 mile days with a heavy pack, but there's a lot to think about in going light. The hiking vs. camping is a good point. Different people backpack for very different reasons. I would love more pointers on how to keep weight down.

As for tents, I had a dilemma when I bought mine. I could only afford to buy one, and since I camp with other people pretty often it had to be a 2-person. The other problem was that I got it shortly before a trip to Iceland and Scotland (hence the lack of $). Between high winds and no trees in Iceland and the rain in Scotland, a tarptent was impractical. I camped under tarps for 3 summers and absolutely love them (particularly when it's warm, nonbuggy, and dry), but it just wasn't realistic to only buy that. Anyway, I ended up getting a Eureka Zeus Exo (the old version). It's a 2-person under 4 pounds and with 13" poles (so it would fit neatly inside my pack on the plane). I did have to sacrifice, though. It's a single wall tent, so I get condensation and no starry nites. Of course, if it's that clear, I should just be sleeping out under the stars. I gotta say that in rainy weather it's the most well-ventilated tent I've slept in. Does anyone know of any other interesting lightweight designs for tents or tarptents on the market?

As for shoes, I gave up full boots a couple years into backpacking. Now, I won't even wear low-risers. I've been fine in trailrunners for a week with 50 pounds. I do carry my Chocos for river crossings, but I've been thinking of trading them in. They're so durable that I've hiked in them several times (and been very grateful for that option), but a friend of mine brought a pair of Crocs last trip. They weighed nothing. I was a little jealous. Is there anything else that light but more rugged out there?

As for water containers, I can't convince myself to leave the Nalgene at home. I've got a platypus and a backup bladder too, but I've seen too many of them get holes. We lost a couple on our grand canyon trip and had to fill them anyway and drink the water out of them before it leaked out. It's also a little easier to fill a bottle quickly and iodine it while I'm still drinking my clean water. Plus, I can store my duct tape on the nalgene instead of buying the overpriced mini-roll at REI. Does anyone know of any other lighter options for carrying water?

Sorry it's such a long post. I'm just interested in learning more from others' experiences...

Larissa

p.s. My 70 pounds wasn't really weight from my gear. I had 9 campers/counselors who had never backpacked, so I gave each of the newbies a meal to carry for the group and carried the last two days worth myself. That along with a couple stoves, fuel, some tarps, and other gear added up quickly. I don't even think I carried a sleeping bag or any extra clothing.

What a contrast between Kennyhel77's list and sblopoke's from 1979! Shows you what the advances in products, mostly due to the space industry, has done to backpacking.

Re duct tape - I was thigh high in snow last year after losing a trail (eventually found before nightfall). Ended up with frostbite on one toe (was never so happy to have a change of socks in my pack when dry ground was reached). When recalling the story, one of my friends asked me - "Why didn't you cover your feet with a plactic bag sealed with duct tape and make a vapor lock - that would have kept your feet much warmer and have prevented the frostbite." Has anyone ever done this and have it worked?

I wrap duct tape around my hiking poles which I adapted from wrapping it around my telemark poles.

I should add, it probably should be removed/replenished after a certain period of time. The stuff on my ski poles was pretty useless when I broke a pole this winter - the stuff pretty much separated glue from fabric from the silver top layer.

Lots of good info but I think besides cost, one has to consider pleasantly sitting around camp reading a BOOK (more weight) and having some stuff that makes it more comfortable, as opposed to survivable. This from a guy who still uses a thin foam pad for backpack sleeping and saves thermarests for winter camping (rare these days) or car camping.

Re: steripens - the drawback is that your water needs to be pretty much particulate-free since there is no "KILLING" solution to permeate into particles. Also there is no solution to dribble back over the threads of the water bottle to sterilize those. Another drawback could be the reliance of battery power which is also the limitation of the Miox filter.

Here's a link to Bob R.'s brief word document on some pack weight tips. Just scroll down to his post, and they'll be a link to the word document:

http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000433

"Does anyone know of any other interesting lightweight designs for tents or tarptents on the market?"

Try the Black Diamond Ultralight Tents (Lighthouse, etc.)
Big Agnes make the Seedhouse and Seedhouse SL models
MSR makes the Hubba Hubba
Not freestanding - Mountain Hardwear - Waypoint 1 and 2

There's also some independent manufacturer's that have been mentioned on this board that I can't recall the names of. If you do a search on "tents" you could probably find it.

As for keeping pack weight down, the BIG 3 are your backpack itself, sleeping bag, and shelter (tent, etc.). That's where most weight is going to taken off. Before I purchased my new gear I had a Gregory Shasta (~7pounds), a synthetic REI bag (~3.5 pounds), and a Sierra Designs 2 person tent (~8 pounds). Just in those 3 things I was carrying just over 20 pounds!

Now, rethink where you're starting from and get a Golite Gust (1lb 4oz), Western Mountaineering 40deg. bag (1lb), and a Black Diamond Firstlight (~3pounds) and now you're only carrying 5lbs 4oz compared to 20!

This is just an example, but you'd be hard pressed to shave 15 pounds anywhere else in your pack. Other things like leaving tent stakes at home if you can use guylines is helpful and can save ounces. Just as a side note, the aluminum stakes I got with my Black Diamond tent were actually lighter than the titanium ones I had bought previously, so be sure to compare things before buying.

Other than that, Golite makes a lot of lighter clothing that can shave ounces off things like jackets and such. Patagonia has a pretty impressive line of ultralight jackets using their new seam-welded technology too.

If you're looking for a really impressive independent backpack maker, check this out:

http://www.cilogear.com/

My friend just got his in the mail and is using it on Shasta as I write this. He has been REALLY impressed.

Another thing I know Bob R. mentioned is questioniong whether you need hot food or not. Not bringing a stove can really free up extra weight in the back. No fuel, no stove, no pans, no pots, etc. Jetboil is a good alternative as most of the time I end up just boiling water anyway.

Not brining a filter is a personal choice. I haven't been bringing one into the Sierra for awhile, but some people like too to feel extra safe.

I'd say the biggest step is to evaluate things you use and don't use after each trip. Do we REALLY need that extra pair of pants or shorts? Etc....

Once you get a kitchen scale and start weighing all your gear, you start to realize how much "little" things can add up. One quick example of this involved my camera. I used to carry my camera in a separate case, attached to my pack on a carabiner. Turns out the camera case was around 5oz., and the carabiner around 3oz, so I dropped the case and the carabiner and just put it in my pocket now. 1/2pound saved!

Little things like that can add up here and there. Some people mentioned hiking in trailrunners. That's what I do too. They say," A pound saved on your feet is equivalent to 5lbs off your back." I believe that to be true. Some people will wear a pair of 4lb boots on a dayhike. Depending on conditions, this might not be needed. I wear the 5.10 Access approach shoe (no longer manufactured). The pair weighs 1lb 11oz. My EMS leather boots weigh 3lbs 11oz. Would I wear 1lb ankle weights if I didn't have to???

Of course, all this is a personal choice. I'm not advocating going ultralight. For some people, the trade-offs aren't worth it. As always, experience is key in knowing what you want/should do. If someone inexperienced read the above paragraph and wore sneakers with 50lbs worth of gear, they would probably have some problems.

Lastly, the big savings with ultralight "stuff" is usually with space. Ultralight tents, sleeping, etc. tend to stuff smaller than traditional backpacking gear, so you can get away with a smaller pack that, you guessed it, is lighter also. Don't think you can get away with getting an ultralight pack and sleeping bag, then carry along your old 10pound tent, because more than likely that ultralight back WASN'T MADE to haul a lot of gear. The Golite Gust can hold 3600cu. in., but it's only made to haul <30lbs. So that's something to keep in mind too...

Ok, been writing for awhile now and still haven't had breakfast. If anyone has any other questions or comments, I'd like to hear them.

Gusto