Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board MR in Mid May

I'm new to this message board, but have found it to be great in terms of opinions and information. I've read alot about the class 3 chute after the notch and it seems fairly hazardous. Is the traverse any safer? I've done the MR in summer before, but this will be my first attempt in snow. Although I have some experience in snow conditions (Rainier, Shasta, Sierra's), the recent discussions on this message board are making me wonder how truly dangerous this will be. I have decided that if conditions do not appear to be perfect, I will not push it. Is this simply good thinking or am I being paranoid? Any info (especially from experienced winter climbers) will be appreciated. Thanks

The area above Iceberg Lake, in my opinion, is somewhat similar to the chutes at the Red Banks on Shasta. The main difference is that the Whitney chutes are much longer and therefore an unbelayed fall or one by someone who doesn't know how to self-arrest can be more dangerous. The chute above the notch in May this year is likely to be mixed climbing in ice, snow and rock. I would say that the traverse is more dangerous than climbing the chute since the traverse is exposed on a steep (55 - 60 degree?) slope and a couple of thousand feet down. If you aren't sure about your abilities, the best option is to go with either a guide or friend who has the skills. Using pro and belaying is also a good way to increase safety if you are uncertain about your abilities.

I have a tendency to think that the climbing on the MR is more difficult than Avalanche Gulch. As Sam said, you'll probably encounter mixed climbing above the Notch. (Rick Kent is supposed to be coming down off of Whitney today. He'll be able to provide a report on current conditions.)

One contrast between climbing Avalanche Gulch and the MR is that the likelihood that you'll be subjected to constant rockfall is quite a bit less on the MR. If a group is descending while you are climbing in the couloir, you will probably find some snow/ice raining down on you.

When we climbed the Standard Route on Rainier in 2003, we had to cross through a serac that I think required more delicate crampon work than what is required on the MR. I found Rainier to be "more difficult" due to the amount of time spent on the route. That was a much longer day. If you've done Rainier, you should be familiar with rope work. The main difference being that instead of a running belay like you'd do on Rainer, you'd want to do a fixed belay above the Notch.

You can have a look at the traverse in this photo album: http://piotrowski.smugmug.com/gallery/80498/1. The major difference is that there was much less snow that year, and the lower part of the mountain was already dry, so comparing it to this year would be difficult. I found the traverse that year to be less challenging than the descent of the chute.

There are several other "winter" climb albums that you can look at. Go to California Mountains -> Mt. Whitney to see them. You can decide if you think the conditions vary much from year-to-year.

kdog,

Conditions this last weekend seemed ideal up to and above the notch. As time goes by and the snow begins to melt out (exposing more rock) things will probably get more difficult. As Richard mentioned you'll probably encounter more mixed climbing. Then again, there is a lot of snow up there so it wouldn't surprise me if you still have great conditions next month.

The decision whether to use the chute or the traverse is a judgement call. This past weekend most climbers used the chute. I saw and photographed two who used the traverse. A slip on either route is serious (likely fatal) due to the steepness of the terrain. I tend to think it's easier to slip while traversing (when your crampons may be somewhat sideways to the slope) than while going up/down the chute (when you're front points are thrust forward into the snow).

Here's what the traverse looks like right now:

<a href="http://www.rickkent.net/ViewerPlus/viewphoto.asp?ID=49709"></a>

Here's what the chute looks like from the same location (note however that you can't get a good feel for the steepness from this photo):

<a href="http://www.rickkent.net/ViewerPlus/viewphoto.asp?ID=49590"></a>

Here's the chute from above which better shows the steepness:

<a href="http://www.rickkent.net/ViewerPlus/viewphoto.asp?ID=49670"></a>

Additional photos are here:

<a href="http://www.rickkent.net/ViewerPlus/viewer.asp?FolderID=382">Whitney MR Photos 4/15/05-4/17/05</a>

By the way, it's not bad to be paranoid. It makes you stop and think. After two recent deaths I too was paranoid about what I would find at the Notch. I was actually somewhat relieved when I got to the Notch and could see exactly what faced me.

-Rick

Richard,

For those not familiar with the NOTCH, could you post a good picture or two of what you saw this past weekend, I am not familiar with the route myself.

Rick's pictures cover the notch in <a href="http://www.rickkent.net/ViewerPlus/viewer.asp?FolderID=382&Page=12" target="_new">this group of pictures from his album.</a> If you view it using Internet Explorer, when you rest the mouse over a thumbnail picture, you can see Rick's narrative of each picture.

The second picture (Img_7662) is looking down the MR from the notch toward Iceberg Lake and Whitney Portal. The fifth picture (Img_7665) is the best of the actual notch. Other pictures show what you see from the notch looking toward the other side -- west and southwest.

Rick's bottom photo raises my hackles...I see three climbers pretty much directly in the fall line of the top climber. If he fell and failed to self-arrest, it looks likely that at least the second and third and possibly the fourth climber would be taken down with him.

I don't claim to be an expert snow climber (too few opportunities here in MO) but one of the first things my buddy taught me when we started climbing Mt. Ritter about 20 years ago was to avoid climbing in a vertical line whenever possible.

Gives me chills...and not from the steepness, but from the possibility that one fall/injury/death leads to three or four...

That's an excellent point Alan. I think all groups that went up that day did the same thing. It's pretty easy to get into the mode of follow-the-leader. Everyone wants to use the same steps. But as you have pointed out staying in a vertical line can lead to a domino effect. In addition, even if no one falls there is the risk that someone above will dislodge a rock or block of ice.

-Rick

Great pictures in the album. I got vertigo just looking at some of the steeper shots. They are beautiful pictures but wicked in their own way. Is this the route that the two climbers loss their lives on...coming down? Pretty intimidating. It's obvious that Mother Nature rules.

Man people that do this for a living must be laughing hard! I figured out years ago that climbing parallel (when possible) is much safer. This works well especially when short roped, so one person at least has a chance to support the fall, and the falling climber (on snow) can pendulum into the fall, hopfully resulting in less of a jult to the support climber.

just a thought

I read in the Outdoors magazine article about the Mt. Hood disaster several years ago that people being roped together on steep ice may not be such a good idea. The idea being that each person's footing is so tenuous that there is no way they could hold someone else in a fall. That is how the Hood climbers caused the huge mess -- they were all roped together.

Would it not be better without a rope, and rely on a self-arrest in such situations?

Steve C.

I do agree with this thinking, once you reach a certin level of difficulty. I had this same conversation with an friend/outdoor guide from Oragon, on a ski trip this winter. His feelings were if you are going to rope-up, you should also establish belays. At class 4 snow is where I tend to do just that. I have done a number of routs (only with my wife) where we were both on a 60' 8mm (spectra) rope. Because of my wifes abilities, we both felt safe about our rope system. Sometimes going through rock bands we would weive a path, that would become natural protection. Point being, if you can develope a skillful system, your chances for safty are greater.

Sidebar- do not short rope with climbers right behind you. You WILL most likely closeline all of them. But if they are lower than the length of rope, you should be ok, if the supporting climber holds the belay. If not, you will have the circumstance of two climbers falling down the fall line.

For me class 4 starts somewhere between 45 and 50 degrees, depending on exposure and length of pitch.

Steve thanks for allowing me to detail my point. This climbing style might not work for everyone.