Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board crampons vs. snowshoes?

I have little experience with winter conditions, so please pardon my ignorant question. I understand that many of you use crampons when there is a lot of ice and snow. It seems to me that in snow you would sink down unless you had snowshoes. Under what conditions should you use snowshoes or crampons? Are crampons adequeate if the snow is soft or powdery? I've hiked for over 15 years but mostly in the deserts. Once again pardon my ignorance. I welcome all decent responses.

Rafael...

That is a great question for the season and the current weather.

Snowshoes are made for use in soft snow. They provide a large surface area to distribute weight so the user remains on top rather than "postholeing".

Crampons are built to provide traction on slippery surfaces such as ice or hard packed snow. Their sole purpose is to keep the user from slipping. (front pointing is just keeping yourself from slidding down a steep, vertical face)

Some snowshoes incorporate a form of crampon in the design to make them more useful on a thin crust. The surface area prevents breaking through while the crampon stops slipping.

As you imagined, if the snow is soft where you sink down a foot or more with every step, snowshoes will be what you need. When the snow is more firm or even icy then you'll want to use crampons to give you a solid grip on the surface.

The big decision that I always have to make is whether to bring one or the other or both. If you know the condition of the snow then you'll know what to bring. But unfortunately you don't always know. I generally bring all my gear in my vehicle and then try to decide at the trailhead what I'll likely need. If in doubt, carry it all (including an ice axe). The only thing that's a little bit of a pain to carry are the snowshoes. They're rather bulky and awkward to carry attached to or in your pack.

-Rick

Also, trekking poles (preferably with snow baskets) are real handy in the snow. I consider these nearly mandatory. They help you keep your balance in slippery terrain, aid you in getting up when you fall down into soft snow, and give you leverage going up hills.

The last time I did a crampon-necessary outting in the Sierras, [in the Palisades] everyone [else] in my group had those nifty "slip-on" crampons which really worked great, 'cause you snap them on .. off .. as needed. That was such an advantage because there was continually varying terrain ... rock here .. ice there ... etc.

All I had for myself, in contrast, were those big gawky bulky strap versions of crampons (which they made us use on Rainier) ... it's like saddling up a mule to put them on! ... takes forever.

I would advise the snap on type ... at least over there by Whitney.

I've heard those snowshoes w/spikes work great topo.

Anvanho

Later in the spring the snow is often packed down and consolidated. There is a time when the temperatures during the day get above freezing to melt the top layer. During the night it freezes over again. This is perfect for crampons since early in the day the snow is firm and you do not sink in.

This time of year it is cold enough all of the time to have lots of unconsolidated loose snow. For that crampons would not prevent you from sinking in. Basically in soft snow you need snowshoes. There is nothing more frustrating then postholing and sinking in. That is worse then the hassle of carrying snowshoes.

REI has some new traction tibetan footwear. They slip over the shoes to provide traction. I don't remember ever seeing them before. www.rei.com # 647-389 They are an interesting alternative to more expensive and heavy crampons. This may be what Anvanho is referring too.

Crampons are really designed for ice rather than snow. In fact in some snow conditions a ball of snow can build up rapidly under each foot so the teeth can no longer dig in. This is quite hazardous particularly during descent. Tapping each crampon every step or so with your axe shaft helps the snow fall off but it is a pain. Asides from that they are sharp and many a beginner has spiked their ankles.

Snowshoes with crampons work well except steep ground. I use MSR Denali's that have toothed metal bars runing lengthways and are a good compromise. But on steep ground (40 degrees +)traction still is a problem and it kills your ankles. The MSR's have an instep bar you can flick up so the pressure is relieved on your ankle on steep ground.

If you're a beginner, stick with snowshoes. If you're doing anything steep, like the MR in winter, snowshoes, crampons, ice axe and some training/practice is imperative. I would not recommend traversing the top of the north face in snow shoes. Leave them at Iceburg and put on crampons when there is any ice underfoot.

Also make sure you can self arrest. A fall in crampons on steep ground without an axe would not have a nice ending.

I view ice axe, crampons, snowshoes and trekking poles as an integrated system. There are trips where I'll all these items depending on terrain.

I would recommend a snow skills course if you are going to be using crampons and ice axe but snowshoes are a put'em on and go item.

What all these items do is turn the drearly old been there, done that trails into new and beautiful adventures.

Bill