Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board First time using crampons

I'm going up the main trail on June 11th.I've read I may or may not need crampons.I decided to buy some just in case and take them along.I guess this is 2 questions:

1)Can I just put them on and use them without ever using them before?
2)Should I get an ice axe to have to use with them?

I will add that I am not an idiot.I realize you have to walk diffently,pay more attention to my footing and be more careful.I will be using my trekking poles,not straying off the trail,unless nature calls.

If it's snowy/icy enough to need crampons, it's way past being snowy/icy enough to need an ice axe. Really, it's the other way around. An ice axe is a basic piece of mountaineering gear any time you have to manuever on consolidated snow with enough exposure and/or angle to worry about. (Say more than 10 degrees)

If you've never used either, Whitney is not the place to learn. You need to get some basic instruction and practice on low to moderate slopes with a long runout and no rocks. You need to know how to self-arrest with the ice axe and only then start learning how to use crampons.

Takes a day or two of practice to get the basics down, and then the refinement process starts...and you never stop learning.

Trekking poles are not designed for self-arrest. They are neither strong enough nor the right configuration to be adequate, especially if the surface is at all icy.

As warm as it has been, you may need neither, but my recommendation would be that, if you cannot get some training and practice, be ready to turn around if the trail is beyond your abilities. Remember the First Rule of mountaineering and its corollary:

1. The summit is optional; returning in one piece is mandatory.

1.a) The mountain will still be there next year.

It's been said a thousand times before on this message board, but I'll say it again. If you haven't done so yet, read "The Mountaineers: Freedom of the Hills". This is the best place to start learning how to use both pieces of apparatus. As long as you are staying on low level snow and ice it is really not that big of a deal to learn how to use an ice axe and crampons. It's when you get to the steeper stuff and the different forms of stepping like front pointing and pied piolet come into play that you need to have experience before attempting to climb.

I guess I'm not being clear enough.From what I've been reading,ice is still a problem in the switchbacks,it may or may not be one in 9 days when I go up.If it is a problem and I couldn't safely negotiate my way up with just my hiking boots,could I use crampons through the icey sections without ever using them before?I'm not planning on taking the MR or using my trekking poles for self arrest.I wasn't implying I would use my poles in place of an ice axe,just use them for walking and balance going up the trail.I'm certainly not going to take any unnecessary chances.Believe me,I'd be the first person to turn back if I wasn't sure about something.

uumm.... okay.. this sounds alot like
the dude that died on Baldy in January. He had NO EXPERIENCE using crampons or axe. Guess he found out the hard way.

or how about the guys and gals I met on Shasta in April that were not wearing helmets. I was climbing with my partner on Casaval ridge which just experienced the first Shasta death in 3 years and only met one climber the whole trip with a helmet on besides us.

or how about the dead climber himself in March.... axe and helmet strapped to the outside of his pack when they recovered his body. Gee, guess that did him alot of good.

I am being overly dramatic here,,,, but I am sick and tired of explaining to my friends and family that these accidents they hear about are caused by
folks being TOTAL IDIOTS!!! it gives the sport a bad name.

while I'm not quite as dramatic as Desey, I fundamentally agree with him that it would be a very bad idea to try out crampons/ice ax that you don't know how to use in dangerous conditions high on the slopes of Whitney. Ice or hard snow is very close to frictionless and it doesn't take much vertical slope to get going fast enough to really hurt yourself. On top of that, people who don't know how to use crampons often break their ankle when a crampon catches as they slide. You can get a guide or take a class to learn how to use this gear. Then go out to practice on short, gentle slopes and then build up to more challenging ones. A climbing helmet is also a really good idea as you often end up going down ice head first and guess what takes the impact when you hit a big rock or snow bank at the bottom.

Desey,
Is the "dude" you are referring to Ali Aminian or Charles Koh?

If you must go for it an ice axe is your most important piece of gear. Crampons will do you no good if you do slip. If you don't learn how to self arrest with an axe then the crampons and ice axe are just extra weight to help gravity kill you faster. You can practice on short slopes first. Rent an axe if not sure of the condidions.

I have not heard anyone mention here details such as grip choice (arrest vs. belay), leashes, COMPETENT SELF BELAY in order to AVOID HAVING TO SELF ARREST IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Fish, no you can not become an instant expert overnight. The great thing about mountains is that sooner or later (usually sooner) they kick your ass. Getting as high as you can this year on Whitney, and doing it safely and within your comfort zone, is a worthy goal. I will be taking my wife on such a trip in two weeks.

The mountain will still be there for you next year or whenever...Will you be? Take the time to learn how to be PROPERLY scared ****less...Don't rush a good thing or you'll miss out! =)

I agree with most of the posts about the importance of training for snow conditions. Get on the internet and look for training in the sierras. In many ways it is more fun than just checking off Whitney. There are lots of training outfits run out of Bishop, Donner Pass, etc. Also, there are several mountaineering clubs whos members will take you under their wing and help you learn. In addition to the training you will meet lots of great and competent climbing companions to go out with. Whitney will still be there next year when you are more qualified.

I spoke with a friend who just got back from the mountain. He said early in the morning (from daybreak to about 7:00 am) the snow was hard and icy, hence he used his ice axe and crampons on very steep sections. Much of the day the snow was soft and he left them strapped on his backpack, crossing snowfields and climbing up and down the hills without them. He said he kicked steps in the soft snow when he needed to. Much of the snow melts in patterns such as buttercups and ridges, so that makes travel safer. He said they needed their crampons on only 20% of the snow they walked on, mostly due to the time of day and how steep the hill was.

You have to learn to use an ice axe and crampons sometime. It is getting to be summer like temperatures up there, so certainly the risk is not there on Whitney like it was 1-2 months ago. I figure the crampons give you grip so you don't fall in the first place. If you do fall an ice axe, properly used, can slow you down or stop you all together.

Sounds to me like the reports are questionable about the need for snow gear when you will be there. Look at the pictures and read the reports. Up to trail camp you could do without them. On the 97 switchbacks, there will be some snow but there is also a growing trail packing the snow down. On the back side of the mountain there is not that much snow, except a large snowdrift between the Keeler Needles and Whitney.

I would not be sure if you will carry them up there for nothing. If you travel during the warmer parts of the day (8 am - 4:00 pm) above trail camp the snow should not be that much of an issue. Based on what I have seen and heard, it doesn't hurt to have them just in case. But I wouldn't go up there thinking it is still winter. It isn't. If you do use them, kick in your steps good and keep your balance. You should be fine. Just stay away from the long steep hills, like the chute above trail camp. An intentional glissade down that can be very dangerous if you don't have the experience. It is better to stay on the trail and walk down.

I just returned from Mt. Whitney today. I surveyed many a person who summited or did not summit (I did not survey the naked man, however). I did not attempt to summit because I am too much of an amateur to try to use crampons--so I talked to people instead. Those who did not summit told me that late in the day they were encountering "post holes" up to about 30-35 inches (if that's the right terminology). Other non-summiters (about 50% during the week), told me that it just seemed to dangerous to go any further. Those who summited always said they did not need crampons or ice axe, but they were the ones with crampons and ice axes attached to their bags. Strange. They said if you leave early, then crampons were not needed.

Personally, as I worked my way up to Trail Camp from Outpost, I noticed how this novice (I) was frightened by the possibility of slipping and falling to my death. I was scared to the point at which I would not have human waste (to put it nicely)!

I can see how crampons, and especially an ice axe would have been helpful. And I can see a good possibility of not needing them in 9 days. It is up to about 50 F at the summit, during the day.

Be careful . . . without the axe and crampons.

Rob