Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Mt. Whitney

We are planning to hike up Whitney at the end of May with some Boy Scouts (already have permits) what typically would be the trail cond. ie; snow and ice would we need ice gear? Our plans are for two days.

Marks,
I would be VERY reluctant to take Boy Scouts up to the summit in late May due to the liability issues if one gets hurt.
I reached the summit June 14, 2001 with a 13 year old Boy Scout and 4 adults. The Boy Scout was the only "kid." He stayed by my side (per his father's directives) as I had the significant training background to guide people. In addition to the "cables" there were several snow fields that could cause a problem. For the return trip we glissaded down the chute with me in front of the Boy Scout so he would have to careen through me to "die" at the bottom. He smacked into me a few times but we were never in serious "danger."
Ultimately, we never used our ice axes (except for glissading) or crampons, but no one knows for certain what you will encounter in late May until you get up there. Unles you have a guide per two Scouts who knows how to use the ax and crampons, and can successfully train the Scouts, I'd be hesitant in going to the summit (unless the snow melt allows for it).
In my opinion, the safest times for an ascent (eliminating the ice factor) are from late June to early October, but you do have the thunderstorm problems in that time frame and lightning can kill just as "dead" as a serious fall.
Do NOT let me deter your effort, just use prudence in your journey with your Scouts. I will be taking a 13 year old Girl Scout up this June 21st, but she is my only "client." I do not forsee a problem with the snow melt at that time (although many say there is more than normal snow at Big Bear---man made!) and with her being my only "concern" I do not see problems like I would if her whole troop were up there with me and I had to rely upon other adults with no experience in such matters. If I were you I'd follow this site for snow conditions up to the time of departure, then ask Doug at the Portal Store and be ready to go with or without axes and such.
Best wishes for success up there!

What is the ages of the scouts in your group?

The reason I ask is because it is not totally crazy to take a bunch of kids up Whitney in May, just a little crazy, if you know what you are doing. I helped take a group of boy scouts up Mt Shasta about four years ago, one child made it up to Helen Lake, the others didn't even get that far.
Here is what difficulties the group encountered:

Altitude sickness at 8500'
Lack of physical fitness
Whining (a lot of it)
Blisters
Fighting

I took the strongest child up to the base of the Red Banks (13,200') and he too started to get altitude sickness. We turned around and made our way back to the group where it was decided we would all descend back to Horse Camp. This was a mostly not fun trip for all involved.

Going up Whitney in May is going to be this difficult at times. There will still be a lot of snow on the tricky places. And remember a grown man died last June on one of those tricky places. Granted he was off course and totally unprepared for a glissade but, totally unbeknownst to him he was sitting on a sheet of ice when he lost control.

My point is, there is going to be a bunch of kids who probably haven't been to the altitudes that you want to take them. You have absolutely no idea how the altittude will affect them, one of them could get sick in the parking lot, one could get sick at Trail Crest. Then what are you going to do, carry the child down in your arms?
Just things you need to consider. I think there are easier mountains at lower altitudes you could attempt first and still give the scouts a fun time. Just my $.02.

marks,
I've guided two groups of older boy scouts to Whitney and one group to Shasta. Each time, we had issues with altitude sickness. Whitney was worst, forcing me to leave my son (15 at the time) and another 18 yr old at trail crest for the time to the summit and back. Expect ice and snow at the cables, consider roping up, its slippery and it helps with confidence. Instep crampons worked well. Suggest no glissade unless each participant has an ice axe- and knows how to use it. Be prepaired!
Brother_rocklizard

I have to take issue with the brother. I believe instep crampons to be highly dangerous devices, suitable to walking on relatively flat *trails* that have ice, to give a better grip. Any snowpack that is requiring an axe, and that one could glissade, is really deserving of real crampons. I'm sure that people of substantial skill could make do, but I think for most, it would be a real mistake. I've not climbed Whitney's main trail in the winter, so perhaps others with experience there could add their thoughts.

Having been around scouts for years, I understand you would need a "tour permit" and have the necessary adult leaders to be covered by the Boy Scouts of America Insurance. There are also permission slips and Insurance emergency waivers for treatment.

Having said that, crampons and ice axe, with the necessary training to know how to use them would be a must. It can be a great experience for the scouts to do some "high adventure." like Whitney in the snow. Don't tell the parents it is a hike, because it won't be... with snow the risk is way different.

I have known many scouts who have summited this or that peak in the snow around Whitney. Like Sierra Sam will mention, roping up to a competent adult on the difficult section is a good idea. Late May is a good time because you don't have to deal with winter conditions. This year I would expect snow above 11000 feet in late May.

A hike up to Cottonwood Lakes might be more appropriate. I would highly recommend that as an alternative.

I have taken groups of boys up the Mountaineers group twice. My rules are 1 adult per kid, everyone physically fit (including carrying a pack), turn around if ANYTHING doesn't feel right, acclimatize for at least 1 day before heading up and then only ~2000 vertical per day going up. With that, some ginkgo, lots of water and healthy food/snacks, you can get most or all to the summit. Also, I would not take on snow/ice unless at least the adults are competent to climb and belay in those conditions and the kids would be roped in the difficult sections.

thanks all who have replied

Dunno - its gotten to be a way too "safe" world we live in. I did the entire Muir trail in one shot, out for 28 days, when I was 13 years old accompanied by my 17 year old brother. Of course the climax was Whitney, and it was a piece of cake - but then we had just done 200 miles, and we were living on powdered lemonade, trout, and hard candy, and thus carrying 25 pound packs. (We took about 20 pounds of trout, packed in 20 pounds of snow, down to my parents at the portal - but thats pretty much all downhill) I say go for it - its been 35 years, and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

Ceebee:
That is an awesome story; what are the beginning and ending points for the Muir trail? I agree sort of ... on the way too safe thing. That is - I'm actually glad there is a greater awareness of the dangers and liabilities out there - but it should never spoil the fun. Educate and train, and then turn people loose; that way there are fewer tragedies. It's very cool what you did. I'd like to give it a try.
Talus

Beginning of Mist Trail at Happy Isles in Yosemite (north end)
Summit of Mt. Whitney (south end)

Thanks California:
I didn't realize I've already done about 40 miles of it.
Talus