Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Newbie looking to conquer Whitney

Having summited multiple peaks around Whitney after one night in the area, I certainly think it is possible. Dave's point is well taken that often we blame fatique, overdoing it, dedydration, and everything else on altitude sickness.

Ken is also correct that when it counts you want to do what you can to adjust to the elevation and do the other things which make sense (drink a lot, eat a lot, don't go too fast, dress appropriately, prepare physically and mentally etc.)

Over the years I have seen the altitude wipe people out. They stop to rest, eat and drink and still when they go higher it gets worse. Sometimes they start down, only to feel so much better, they turn around and get sick again when they return to higher elevations. Being worn out will respond to pain killers, rest and food/ water...real altitude sickness won't.

If you are lucky and not affected by the altitude, great....but you never know when it will hit. One trip seems fine...the next doesn't.

I personally find it harder when I camp at Tuttle creek or in the Alabama hills. Getting up to the portal is the best bet....unless you feel a good rest in the hotel will be better then a restless sleep up at the portal... but Lone Pine is only 3770 feet above Sea Level..not much help in the altitude game

I don't know if Whitney's altitude would kill anyone but I don't think one should UNDER-rate altitude sickness. Yes, lots of folks are probably not in shape to climb to that elevation. But I know I have been affected by it even when reasonably well acclimatized.

When I did Whitney in July, I was backpacking. I got queasy between Mirror Lake and Trail Camp on the first day. I had already camped at Rock Creek Lake and hiked to Mono and Morgan Passes. I camped at the Portal. Yes, it could have been lunch or excitement but I rarely feel queasy. I did feel fine the next day going to and thoroughly enjoying the summit.

A friend got altitude affects a number of years ago each time we were above about 9,500 feet. She was miserable and in otherwise fine shape. Headaches and nausea. This same person got the effects while we were sleeping (car camping) at Cedar Breaks in Utah, at just over 10,000 feet. No exhaustion or even exercise that day. But we had been hiking fine lower at Zion and Bryce and Capitol Reef. Palpitations and erratic heartbeat. After 3 hours of this, I finally convinced her we needed to get down. At 4am, I started the car, warmed it thoroughly, tucked her in, in her sleeping bag and broke a frigid camp (20F). We were heading down and instantly she was fine again. All symptoms ceased.

Altitude sickness is real and should not be ignored or solely attributed to fatigue or food or heat (Whitney)....

Just another opinion.

Two years ago, I spent 2 nights at Horseshoe meadows before we hiked up to Thor Peak. The second night, after a short hike up Tuttle Creek to the old Church, I got sick right after I went to bed....flu like symptoms...finally my father gave me "Diamox", suspecting resting (heart rate slows down and it can get worse) brought on symptoms of altititude sickness. 30 minutes latter I fell asleep and it passed.

In retrospect, I was not suffering fatigue, exhaustion, dehydration or other things like that. I felt fine before I laid down for the night. Other trips in the area have not bothered me.

I certainly think altitude sickness is real, sometimes coming on unexpected.

GoingBackSoon and others:

Horseshoe Meadow campground is the easiest, most convenient, prettiest, and also most full campground at Horseshoe Meadow.

However, there are two other campgrounds, one is kind of for RV's and is near the pack station, the other is Cottonwood, when I was there last Aug. it was very nearly empty while Horseshoe Meadow cgr was packed. Consider it an alternative. I most certainly will, the Cottonwood cgr is pretty in itself!

Not to mention it'll add only a mile or so to your hike unless you're going via NAP.

>>I don't know if Whitney's altitude would kill anyone<<...

I wonder if Bob R or Doug, Sr. would have any historical knowledge re: any severe AMS incidents on Whitney.

2/1/03 - I suspected that Whitney's altitude *could* kill someone, but needed evidence of that from either Bob R. or Doug Sr. [see Doug's Jan 31 post below].

In one study, 42% of those traveling to 10,000 ft contracted AMS. (Dean AG, Yip R, Hoffmann RE. "High incidence of mild acute mountain sickness in conference attendees at 10,000 foot altitude." J Wilderness Med 1990;1:86-92)

Regarding AMS being overblown and staying the night before at Horseshoe Meadows:

My Whitney MR attempt several years ago started with a drive from coastal Ca. to Lone Pine. We are both in excellent shape and made sure to be very well hydrated and ate plenty. Got our permits and headed up to Horseshoe for the night. Wanting a quick start in the morning, we did not set up a camp, but stayed in the back of the truck.

It was one of the more miserable, cold, uncomfortable nights I have ever spent. Got very little sleep and we got rolling early in the am because we were so uncomfortable. As we packed the car and drove down towards Portal, both of us felt like we had been drinking martinis for many hours - it literally felt worse than the worst ever hangover. We stopped at the turnout in the road below Portal and made coffee and oatmeal. It took me over 45 minuts to down 1 cup of coffee and 3 spoonfuls of oatmeal. I was very nearly ready to give up right then and there.

We decided to drive to Portal anyway just to see how we felt. Bt the time we got there, the food and aspirin had kicked in and both of us felt fine to hike. We went to Lower Boyscout and decided to camp there to make an easy day of it and not go too high too fast.

The next morning I felt great and was raring to go. My partner had the old hangover feeling back and wasn't going anywhere. We waited until about 10 am and ate and hydrated to see if he'd get better. He didn't. We hiked to Portal, drove into Lone Pine, and drowned our sorrows in pizza and beer. . .

So I don't think AMS is overrated at all. It sucks big time! It strikes semi-randomly. There are things you can do to prevent it, but they don't always work.

Next time we'll sleep lower the first night and dayhike at Horseshoe.

I think it's a problem of expectations. If you think you're going to climb Whitney with no more discomfort, say, than your regular workout at 24 Fitness, you have unrealistic expectations. Just suck it up and do the thing! Sure, there are a very small number of people who experience true AMS, even on a benign mountain such as Whitney, but most are just complainers looking for a disease to assign their discomfort to. Also, you guys who are doing all this camping at elevation in order to acclimatize, are doing more harm than good. Everyone knows that your body cannot make the necessary adjustments with one or two mostly sleepless nights at altitude. The best approach is to put your whining on hold and get up and down the mountain before your body has a chance to figure out what is going on. "Climb high, sleep low".

I think Dave is fortunate he doesn't have altitude sickness and part of his observation is a fair one. Many blame everything on altitude, although other things can feel the same.

A few years ago I drove from Sea Level to the portal and backpacked up to around Lone Pine Lake, sleeping on the snow in preperation to climb Thor Peak.

I felt strong and fine all the way to our camp site. However after I laid down to rest it came on..flu light symptoms. I felt so bad I wanted to get up and leave, but it was cold and I felt sick...so I did nothing and waited it out.

Hours latter it passed. Over the years I have noticed I never sleep well the first night, at either the portal, or Horseshoe meadows or the gate up on White mountain.

Altitude sickness doesn't strike everyone all the time. But it always an issue, a gradual ascent is always better.

Yep, I guess that's it, I'm a whiner. Nevermind that I've been a competitive cyclist, triathlete, scuba diver, surfer, swimmer, backpacker, etc for oh probably 25+ years - I have no idea that it actually is physically painful to climb a mountain!!!

Give me a break. AMS feels like a terrible hangover - extreme nausea, dizziness, lack of appetite, lethargy, etc. These feel nothing like getting worked by many hours of working hard in the hot sun to go up a big hill.

AMS is real. It happens somewhat randomly - it can strike you at fairly low elevations when you have never had it before. There are things you can do to prevent it, but they are not surefire.

But, go ahead and ignore it. It's just the normal suffering of climbing. Keep pushing on to the summit.

Oh, but make sure your cell phone is working so that Bob R. and CLMRG can come rescue you when you are stuck up high and can't move because you feel so awful - I don't want to trip over your corpse when I make it up there.

Everyone has a different tolerance to altitude and the one proven way to minimize its affects is to hike high and camp low. I have taken several groups up the main train and MR route and found the following routine to work the best. I have to say I only do this with groups so that everyone has the best chance of success. Some individuals would never need to take these measures. First of all, in addition to hydration and nutrition, I am a firm believer in good rest. If you do not get good rest before your first day on the trail you are much more succeptable to AMS. I have my group meet at the Portal on day one and we day hike to Lone Pine Lake or up the Mysan Lake Trail. We all then go down to Lone Pine and stay the night in a hotel. Next day we get up early drive to the trail head and hike to either Trail Camp or UBSL depending on route and camp. Next day we summit and come back to camp. Some stay another night and hike out and some hike out on summit day. I have done this with approximately 20 friends now and they have all succeeded in summiting. Two years ago I took a group on a hike from Horseshoe Meadows to Whitney and we camped at Horseshoe Meadows the first night. The next morning four of the hikers developed AMS symptoms. Two got better over time, one finished the hike but had mild to moderate symptoms the entire time and the other developed severe symptoms before we got to New Army Pass and had to abandon the hike. I have never camped that high on the first night again.

Hey Whitney Newbie - we (me, my boyfriend and my son ) hiked up Mt. Whitney last August, (2003) - we live in SF Bay Area. no previous high-altitude experience, did 1-day Half Dome the year before with no problems except yeah, you know how much the feet hurt coming down! We did a 3-day trip, arrive in Lone Pine on Saturday morning, took a trial hike at around 10,000 feet that afternoon, w ith the backpacks (oh yeah, forgot to tell you, none of us had ever done backpacking before, ie, with sleeping bag, tent, food, etc ) - anyway, our trial hike got cut short because the rain started coming down pretty heavy, so we hiked only a few miles round trip, if that. Next morning we set out up Mt. Whitney, and camped at Outpost, the first campground, what is it, 4 or 5 miles in? That was fine, hardly anyone else was there, I had read that you might be able to sleep better there than at the next campground (7 miles in and at 12,000 feet, and I'm sorry, all the names have already escaped me!) - also, Outpost has no marmots trying to steal your food - so critter-free. And since none of us had ever lugged around 30-lb. packs on our backs before, I thought it might be best to drop those as soon as possible! Next day we hiked up to the top, I think we finally set out around 7 a.m., took about 2 hours to get up to the next camp (3 miles) and then another 4 hours to the summit (which is only another 4 miles) - actually, the grade is surprisingly NOT steep! Nowhere near as steep as Half Dome or a number of other trails I've done here in the Bay Area - it's just the altitude that gets to you, and makes it simply impossible to move very fast - my son and I usually hike at a pretty brisk pace, 3 miles an hour or so, and we were just laughing at how slowly we were moving! at around 13,000 feet, I began to feel a bit lightheaded, a bit nauseated, but only really if I looked either up or out or down - as long as I just kept my sight on the trail, at where I was going to put my foot next, I was ok.
Once we got to the top, I suddenly felt just incredibly sleepy, I could hardly keep my eyes open! I realized afterwards that I had read way too many of these message board stories and other online tales of various people's miseries and travails doing this hike, and as a result, I was really preoccupied and stressed with the issue of whether I was going to be able to make it or not!! It turned out that it really wasn't anywhere near as bad as what most of the stories led me to believe - but I also feel like I missed out on really appreciating what a wondrous experience I was having because of my preoccupation - so we're going to try to "win the lottery" again this year, this time we're going to do it in 2 days. (Hiking up to the 7-mile point this time, and putting up with the marmots and altitude - and people - a lot more folks hike at this higher spot than down at Outpost) I wouldn't want to try just the one-day hike, I'm not into hiking in complete darkness, and I thinkit would just be more tiring than enjoyable - but there were certainly plenty of people doing it the day we summited, and I only saw 2 guys turn back before they reached the top - there were some fairly young kids, maybe 10-12 years old, and folks in their 60s.

I was 48 at the time, I do a lot of hiking here in Bay Area, mostly 5-12 miles, I'm in good shape as far as just good endurance, not a buff-athletic type at all, my son hikes a lot with me but also not buff, my boyfriend (52) is not really athletic, and really doesn't like hiking but likes to keep me happy :-) and he really did not do much of anything to prepare for the hike. I do think it's a good idea to spend some time at 10,000 feet or above beforehand, at least a day, probably more would be even better. You don't really need to hike, just acclimate.
we took way too much food, and you dont need to fill up on water beforehand if you have a filter - there is plenty of water to fill up on with a filer, until the 7-mile point -after that, at least in August, there were only a couple of points where water crossed the trail but it wasn't much more than a trickle. So yes, make sure you fill up at the lake there, and you'll be fine - it's only an 8-mile round trip from that point back down to the same point.

what dates are you putting in for? I'm asking for any 2 days between mid-July and mid-Sept, maybe we will cross paths! This time I'm taking my other son too, and maybe a friend of mine. Ok stop reading people's stories, just make sure you've got good shoes, appropriate clothing, you really don't need a map, the trail is clearly marked all the way up, what do you need? Camera, oh my god there are some beautiful sights !!! and cell phones do work at the top, you can call all your friends and say, "guess where I am?"

The feet didn't hurt as bad coming down Whitney as Half Dome, because it's not as steep a grade. Of course, doing it over 3 days, that second day we onl y hiked 7 miles down, and then the remaining 4 the next day, so that might have made a difference as well.

I hope we win!!!! I can't wait to do it again!

Also, I was concerned about the trekking poles thing, so many people seem to think they're so great, but it seems like everywhere I go, the folks with the poles are moving soooo much slower than other people - I don't know, maybe it is easier on the feet, but I just don't get it...

Dave is very fortunate to be tolerant of altitude.

However, AMS is very real and will affect most hikers who spend the nite in Lone Pine and then try to go directly to the summit of Whitney in one day. HAPE and HACE are rare below 14K', but not unheard of.

For me, going from near sea level to 11.5K in one day is a very reliable way to bring on AMS. I have tested this many times. I even get AMS climbing to 13.5K after a night at 8K. Spending my first night at around 10K solves most of my problems.

Hikerbabe - Trekking poles are more for the knees than anything else, either to keep already problem knees from getting worse, or (kind-of like long term insurance) to keep good knees from going bad. Rough a guess as to how many steps you take in 22.4 miles (round trip), and especially when going back down the hill (the harder part on knees), and then ask yourself how the pounding motion of that many steps might affect your knees. Most people who use them swear by them and notice a positive difference on the wear and tear to their knees when using them. On the other hand, not everyone prefers to use them. So far (and this may change later), I am one of those who do not. For me, they just get in the way. Whether or not my knees pay for that later remains to be seen. Just my personal preference at this point.

Consider this if you have the time, don't have a lot of experience at high elevations, and want to increase your chances of a comfortable and successful summit attempt: Camp at Horseshow Mdw or the Portal, spend a first night at Outpost Camp, *and* spend a second night at Trail Camp. Most people stop at either Outpost or Trail Camp, but an easy day packing between the two camps--a gain of only about 2,000 feet--will really help, especially on summit day. Go slowly, force fluids, enjoy the beauty around you, and take frequent breaks.
Good luck!
L

About poles: They're a must if you have knee issues. As far as I can tell, they don't slow me down. If anything, they allow me to go faster 'cause I'm not in agonizing pain.

Also, even if you don't have knee problems, poles are good for stability - particularly on the descent, or if you get a bit wobbly up high. If you're afraid they'll slow you down, get the telescopic ones, and use 'em only when you need to.

As for altitude, lots of folks simply don't have the stones to gut it out to the top and back; and these people love to tell stories about altitude sickness on the mountain.

On the other hand, altitude sickness is very real, and it can strike anyone (experienced or not, in great condition or horribly out of shape) at any time.

Get lots of sleep in the days leading up to the hike, follow all the good advice that's all over this board, stay positive, stay determined, and hope for the best.

Don't, however, dismiss the potential affects of altitude sickness as "overblown." It's real, and when it hits you, you'll quickly become a believer.

If you're an experienced hiker who's never had a problem with altitude, stop acting so cocky: you're not a stud; you're lucky. And please stop casting such cavalier doubt on sound advice about altitude, simply because you've never had a problem with it personally.

Just to put the altitude sickness issue in perspective - Edmund Hillary never had any problems with it - until suddenly he did. Even those fortunate enough usually to have no problems with altitude can find themselves affected on some climbs.

Hi , Bob may have been on this rescure, some years ago we had a fatal AMS on Whitney, about Mirror Lake area, and we see many close calls where if people didn't return to lower elevation (at times all the way to Lone Pine) we may have more AMS problems.
Hiking poles ? I was ask to test a set for a company, and to give some background on my hiking outfits, Levis, t-shirt and about any kind of shoes I find when I leave ,sometimes too small and have very bad feet now, So after two years and two sets of poles many crosscountry miles and steep travel, I will not hike without them now also when we see people on the trail with knee/ankle hip/ feet problems we can lend them the poles and they can get down on their own . The slow part comes with age: the poles you can stop and adjust, the trees you can stop and talk about, same as the birds, flowers, and past hiking trips ,where you going next and how long you will stay, adjusting the boots and checking for hot spots and applying mole skin and hearing what others think work better, water stops you can always get 5-10 minutes out of them and weather comments are good for a stop every now and then to check clouds . So by adding gaiters, sternum straps, zipper pants, sun glasses, sunblock, bladder, pump/filter us old guys can go all day ,also getting "somewhere" fades .Being out becomes the reward with good company in the outdoors that so few people go into now. Some can go fast, everyone can go slow and enjoy the day.