Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Fatal Accident on June 21st

And it would be really helpfull if their aircraft carried them .......

This thread has disappointed and disgusted me a great deal! The sad part is that even after a tragic death, most of you truly don’t get it. Many of you are focusing on radios - that was not the problem. If everyone at trail camp had a radio tuned to the same channel would it have solved anything? NO, Absolutely Not! CMORE, you even have the audacity to blame the Forest Service! Your ignorance and lack of experience was clearly demonstrated in your post.

The first problem, based on what I read, is two inexperienced people tried to do something they didn’t know how to do. What happened is very unfortunate, but quite clearly the case. Glissading can be very dangerous, end of story.

However, the bigger problem, again based on what I read, was that no one took charge after learning of the accident until Michael showed up the following morning. Michael did the right thing and conducted a search. Nevertheless, I can’t believe that it wasn’t done sooner! An injured person was left outside overnight and no one searched until the following morning! How on earth could those of you staying at trail camp on Saturday night sleep, knowing that someone could have possibly been alive that close to your campsite? Hypothermia doesn’t wait until the morning! Anyone who camped at trail camp on Saturday night should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Anyone who headed up the trail past trail camp Sunday morning before the body was found should also be ashamed of themselves. You left someone to die! Someone who possibly could have been saved if reached in time.

In the mountains there is no ambulance or first response team. No going inside when you get cold. The forest service didn’t get there until late, because they didn’t know about the accident.

In the mountains there are only other hikers and mountaineers.

Those of you who didn’t lend a hand should be very ashamed.

I just found out that the person that passed away was a co-worker here in Huntington Beach, Ca. I was also there Sat. and but was back at the portal at 8:30 pm. No, we did not know each other was climbing. There have been several stories as to what actually happened, including that she had slipped and in tring to help her, he fell. I would suggest that you all take the Radio conversation to a different thread out of respect. This is a huge loss and we already miss him here at work. Please pray for his wife and family. Thank you.

First, I would caution y'all against jumping to conclusions about information that is not known first hand by anybody on this thread, which in this instance, includes what did or did not happen overnight at Trail Camp prior to 9am Sunday morning, and the inital cause. Appearances and wild stories can and frequently are deceiving, and I've already heard some in this case that were completely wrong.

The chopper was red and white in color with no agency markings that I could make out. My first guess would be an Inyo County SAR team, but I have nothing to base that on. It's arrival was pretty much in the time frame I expected if the guy I met at Outpost Camp that was hiking down to the portal to call 911 was the first to make contact, and they were flying from say, maybe, Independance or even Bishop.

Of course radios were not the cause of the accident. In the end, even if they were in use, it would not have made a difference in this particular case. I feel it's a usefull discussion in the learning process because it is a tool that is available but was not being utilized. The next time this happens, and you know it will, maybe the victim will be hanging on by a thread, and every second counts. They could easily save a life if everybody is on the same page, and this is as good a place as any to get on the same page.

My personal opinion is that this thread is not a memorial, but a place for all of us to learn how to do better next time around.

A very unfortunate and preventable accident. Don't glissade without an ice axe and solid experience with all 8 self-arrest positions. If you hit ice and don't know what you're doing the results can be tragic.

Amen!
I as well as about 8 other well trained, very experienced trauma care, OEC certified, first responders were hiking up on Sunday. I can concur and have pictures of helicopter. We hit the camp around 2pm.

Incredible tragedy! No questions, all of our thoughts and prayers went out to the victim and family all day Sunday.

If we had been there, there is no way any of us would have gone to bed Sat. night...
Someone would have been dispatched immediately down trail to get help and a night search would have found the man. We ALL carry radios and I was able to reach the portal from trail camp. There were also several GPS units to give Lat/Long info to the helicopter dispatch. Leadership and communication is key!!

JPR, however disgusted you are with people and their inexperience or lack of action what’s done is done lets stay on the same page and learn from this.

This trail attracts the inexperienced. Whatever help, suggestions, ideas, are not meant to disrespect but rather to remember and learn.

JSW

hi, I was coming down from the top and noticed all the heliocopter activity below--when we got down to camp, below the switchbacks, we asked about, but nobody knew anything--I can understand the problem about lack of ways to communicate effectively.The snow was sharp ice at 6:00.It was windy. The cables are not yet up, and a lot of people are up there without proper equipment. It is not a easy climb people--Wake up. Another climber came down past us at 7:30-- In shorts.--he asked for a doctor for himself-He was just bone tired-We tried to raise help, but no way to get a message out-We got him fixed up but there should be a way to get help up there if needed. Yes there is a phone up in San Jacinto for just the same sort of emergencies. maybe all the motels and food places that profit from the mountain could give something back. Set up a emergency phone service. Being realistic, It is not the hikers job to provide aid when there is no way to assess what is going on. It is a bit of a zoo up there. All will gladly help if some way is provided to get out an accurate message. This was my first time on this mountain, and I was amazed at the carnaval attitude that exists in a place where death is a small step away. Why are not the cables up? Pipes are clear but no work is being done. It is an ice field above and below and nothing is being done to prevent any more deaths. Someone is dropping the ball here. Many thanks to all who came up and assisted in the rescue. I had to arrive home in Sacramento to get a real story of the facts. Nobody knew anything at the camp. I also have some SAR experience but without an accurate information setup, experience is useless. It was cold, windy, and dangerous. Lone Pine makes a lot of money off the mountain. Are they going to sweep this under their rug? Just adding my 2 cents worth, but these conditions need looking into.

I think instead of asking why weren't the cables up, the question should be, "why were people with insufficient experience heading up past the snowfields?".

Also, instead of insisting on putting in telephones, taco stands and a Starbucks at trail camp, people should discuss what to do in case of an emergency. In all reality this is a remote wilderness area, not the mall. If you get hurt how are you going to get out? Tell people, help is a full day away.

I have noticed, especially on this site, a sort of overly supportive "go for it" attitude. While it's nice to be supportive, I think more caution and greater explinations of potential risks need to be shared. Remind people that safety is their personal responsibility, not that of the lone pine ranger station.

Exposure + Probabability (conditins & experience) x Siverity of Injury = Course of action

Ed,
What the he$$ is that supposed to mean?

Exposure - Yes, leaving someone outside overnight subjects them to exposure.

Severity of Injury - No one found the guy until the next day, how could anyone assess the severity of injury?

Probability - Seeing that the woman survived the slide down the chute with relatively minor injuries tells me that there is a HIGH probability that the guy also survived the slide.

Course of Action – Go to sleep.... Doesn’t seem to fit with your formula, does it?

Sorry Ed, but your clever little formula doesn’t excuse people who were at trail camp Saturday night from doing more.

To JPR--get realistic fool--Nobody wants a taco bell or a starbucks--just some way to get help if it is needed. Someone got a heliocopter up there--How? If it was you, lying in the snow, you might reconsider the odeous answer. Who elected you god? yourself? Go back to your mall. We know it is dangerous--There has to be a way to provide aid if really needed. Any system that provides a lottery for admission should have some provision for accident.

JPR...I agree with you 110%
Anyone who wishes to assess blame or point fingers is out of line.
Traveling in the backcountry is inherently dangerous.
One's safety in the mtns is primarally the responsability of oneself and/or partner(s).
People seem to take this mountain a bit lightly without realizing that it can really unleash pain and death on you in a flash.
Most of them get away with it...tradgicaly in this case, someone did not.
Good decision making is the most important thing, both prior to the trip as well as on the mtn. These two made some bad decisions on that trip and it lead to injury and death.
Those of you who want to ***** about the SAR Rangers or the frakin' cables not being up are totally missing the point...YOUR IN THE *****IN' WILDERNESS!!!

YOUR SAFETY IS YOUR OWN RESPONSABILITY!!!!

If people on the mountain can help you out then great, but I would say it is to expect to rely on that.

As for you Michael, you are an outstanding human being and I very much appreciate what you did. I also agree that people should not judge what was going on prior to your arrival without first hand info. I can say for myself that I would have looked for the guy all night long. Howver, if the people at Trail Camp did not have the gear or skills or confidence to conduct the search off trail in the dark then it might be better that they did not since there could have been more victims.
I once rescued a fellow off of Long's Peak who got lost at the Keyhole and was wandering around with no warm clothes, food, light, etc... @ ~12900 ft.
We took him down the mountain FIRST that night and then went back up, from the bottom again, the next day to summit.
I am a bit dismayed that some might have chosen to continue to climb the switchbacks the next day with a missing person just at the bottom of the slope, but as you were saying Michael, who knows who knew what and when and passing judgement is not helpful.

Enough with the hostile and clever retorts....

markstor...the lottery system is there to protect the wilderness from us humans and has nothing at all to do with anyone's responsability to get our sorry butts out of a jam that we should be prepared to deal with ourselves. If it was me lying in the snow, I would hope that my climbing partner would have the skills to help me out or vise versa. A phone at Trail camp would probably help...but is it really wilderness experience then. I say no and you can keep your phone at the mall or along the highways.

I say opt for skills and caution.
This mentality of "hey, let's go out in the backcountry unprepared and expect that someone will help us out if something really bad happens" is absurd and far to common these days.

Self reliance, challenge, and personal responsability my friends...this is why we love the wilderness.

Glissading is an activity that is a great deal more dangerous than it seems to be. Even if you have an ice axe and know how to use it, there is always the danger of encountering unexpected ice patches that dramatically increase your speed to the point where you can no longer stop yourself. Another danger -- perhaps even more insidious -- is that you will encounter snow that is full of air. Under these conditions, the pick of the ice axe can zipper right through the snow and not slow you down at all.

If the accident occurred at 8:00 p.m., it's possible that it turned dark by the time potential rescuers got to the accident zone and began their search. This doesn't excuse people who didn't bother searching at all or searched for 5 minutes and then quit, but it might have made the search more difficult.

First I have sympathy to the family and the love ones of the person who died in this accident. Was it a preventable accident? Well, based on what I have read here, I've seen no reports in any paper, I honestly can say I don't know. The orginal post mentioned this couple attempted to glissade from Trail Crest, in a latte post someone mentioned a fall. There is no mention of the equipment they had or their mountaineering experience, or lack there of. So how can anyone come to a conclusion whether this was preventable or not, they can't in my mind. JPR says they people were inexperienced, where is the evidence? He also takes the position that people at Trail Camp should have done more. Exactly how many mountaineers were there at Trail Camp that evening with gear that would allow them to go out on that snowfield? My guess is not that many. How many hikers, as opposed to mountaineers, even know where the chute is or how to get there in the dark. A lot of these people there probably just got done carrying a 50 pound pack for the first time up 6 miles and +3,600'. By the time the news got to Trail Camp of this accident most of these exhausted people were in the tents asleep, this is a guess on my part.

Is the forest service responsible for any of this? Absolutely not. Could they do more considering this route is wilderness in name only? Yes, as I mentioned in a previous post a seasonal ranger station at Trail Camp paid with Whitney Zone fees would probably be good enough but it wouldn't have saved this man.

When it comes down to it you must be responsible for yourself in the backcountry. This place has a circus atmosphere but no one says you have to join the circus.

Bill

Markskor – you stated “any system that provides a lottery for admission should have some provision for accident.” Bad grammar aside, what do you mean by this? It sounds as if you are saying Rangers should be on call 24/7 to all assist hikers who are victims of accidents, poor planning, or get in over their heads at a moments notice.

Your turn to get realistic! Do you have any idea how many thousands of dollars helicopter flights cost? Imagine how many calls the rangers would get from hikers who were tired, had a headache, sprained ankle, got cold, were wet, etc. if a phone were put in. So no, I think a phone at trail camp would only encourage novices to get in over their heads and in turn, put them at a greater risk. Personal responsibility and teamwork, that’s how things work in the mountains. That’s why I always go on my trips with a small group of experienced close friends. If one of us gets hurt, there is always someone there who will help.

You also state “we know it is dangerous” but you still seem to expect some governmental figure to bail anyone out when having problems. A phone, yeah, turn the place into even more of a zoo!

BTW, no one elected me god. I am just very upset about this whole issue and an unnecessary death. I go into the backcountry very frequently, trad climb, ice climb, etc, and far too often with Whitney I see a caviler attitude and high level of disregard for safety.

the fact is, this is not a wilderness adventure. It ceased to become a wilderness when 120 people a day are allowed to "challange" the highest mountain in the lower 48. Wilderness is solitude and this trail does not qualify for any of that. Nobody is pointing fingers at anyone and I do apologize if I appear to be, but the area actively touts this trail and all that it entails. It encourages all to try it, bag it, be a hero. Telescopes are trained on it, money is made off of it. Cables are provided for safety so somebody realizes that some provision for security is required. Most of the "challangers" are not mountainers in any sense. Nike shorts and gatoraid water bottles are not the equipment that any mountaineers I know use. This is a unique situation and some provision must be made to provide a quick response to a disastrous situation. Either pre-qualify all to ascertain their experience level, make a decision who can or cannot go, and leave it as it is, and lose the cables, (they are not natural you know) or realize that this is what it is- a brass ring for anybody to grab at, An adventure that anyone with a bit of luck can try for, and make an allowance for safety within reason. Education is a first priority but you can't tell some people anything. Anybody who considers this a pure wilderness adventure also thinks the matterhorn at Disneyland is pristine.

To those of you who feel the need to criticize the decisions made by those at trail camp on the night of the accident, from somebody who was there:

-It's easy to say what you "would have done" when you were not there. Having all the information, in hindsight, it's much easier for you to make an informed decision than it was for those at trail camp.
-What sense does it make for people who have never been on the mountain before, with no SAR experience, and no night routefinding experience to head out in the cold, dark night and risk becoming victims themselves??

It may be easy for you to say what you would have done if you had been there, but you were not there, and you don't know the experience of the people that were there.

Lets all cool down until we get enough information to assess the situation and all learn something.

Can we transfer the hotly debated phone/radio thread to another post. Last time I believe it went over 100 posts on that topic with a lot of strong opinions and even insults (its still going if you want to vent there). I think this is a disservice to the topic of someone dying on the mountain we all love to visit. Please stick to the topic of what happened, its more serious than our petty differences. Just the facts, please.

Can we drop the blame game, especially at this early point, it doesn't solve anything. It been my experience that most people are incapable of taking effective control of an emergency situation, for a variety of reasons. That’s just the way it is. It an interesting topic but I don't think that is the issue here, and it might be intimidating people from supplying additional information.

My condolences go out to the grieving wife and her family.

Nec, I agree with you. What sense does it make for people at trail camp to head up and do SAR when they are not experienced? SAR should be left to the experts. There's a reason they train and train. Especially, in the dark. I would hate to see others get hurts due to lack of experience, even if their motives are altruistic.

JPR, I can understand your frustration with people at trail camp, but without accurate info., training, equipment, etc, do you really think novices should mount a SAR? I respectfully disagree with you on this topic.

The fact of the matter is that this was a very tragic event. One can argue radio, slow response, etc. all they want. My heart goes out to the family. I hope this tragdey serves to remind all of us that it only takes one moment of being lax to get into a whole lot of trouble.

Please stop the flaming, it serves no purpose. Be safe everyone.