Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board WHITNEY Permit System and permit enforcement.

Hello, let me start by saying I fully support the $15 Whitney permit system. However, allow me to ask you experts the details of how the system is employed, and what happens to those caught without permits. I am from Minnesota, and have never traveled to California before. I may take a long trip this summer down to Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and then onward to California. To choose one exact date for me and 2 other people to have to use a permit could be a complicated matter as time would be tight, and we would not be fully able to predict when we might make it up to the Whitney area. So, have any of you ever hiked Whitney without a permit? When you do a 1 day hike, do you ordinarily see a ranger at least once on the trail? Are permits displayed in an obvious way on the outside of your clothing, or are they kept inside packs and clothing? What is the penalty for hiking without a permit if you are caught and the ranger gives you the normal penalty? what is the highest possible penalty- can you be arrested or charged with a crime? After the lottery, are there normally plenty of permits left over for most dates during June-Sept? For instance, if I called the ranger station April 20, and asked what dates I could purchase a permit for in June, would most dates be available for me to choose from at that time for 1-day permits? If I made it to the ranger station June 15 and asked for 3 permits for that day or the next day, would they probably have some left or ones that were not picked up by the purchasers? Are permits that were purchased but not picked up free, or do they cost an additional $15? HOPE I get some HELP, THANKS!

I would suggest that Whitney not be on your agenda. You are talking about it as a very casual undertaking, almost an afterthought, and that portends trouble, if you don't respect the mountain. There are other fine hikes in the area that require little planning or permit hassles. I'd invite you to start your exploration by climbing Trail Peak. No permit needed. Or if you want a more ambitious climb, Mt. Olancha. Mt. Muah would present a wonderful compromise that involves cross-country travel, where you will see few people, and even overnite, there is no quota on the permits.

Last I checked, the new California Governor takes a very dim view of scofflaws. I think confiscation of the vehicle used in transportation to the location of the crime is applicable. I often see rangers on the Whitney trail, hourly is common.

Probably best to have another mountain on your agenda.

Tsunami. I see your plight, but people come all the way from Europe to find they have to have a permit, and get rejected.

I'd say apply well in advance for some date midweek, and pay the fees. The permit issued is to be placed visibly to your pack, as a ski lift ticket. If they catch you without a permit, the ranger may turn you around immediately, and you don't get much of a hike. In summer, I think they really enforce this.

So what else to read and reply to?

4Xsummit, someone else said your permit may be picked up the day before it is dated. Is this the earliest it may be picked up? I read some trail condition posts from earlier this year,and to avoid most snow and ice, it appears July/August is a much better time to go than May/June. Are mountain climbing shoes a good idea? I am thinking about buying a pair of the ANASAZI MESA

One other curious question. Why do the cables get taken down until Summer? Would the snow against the cables cause all the post supports to bend?

Hmmmm....well graded? Did they asphalt the trail since November? Bob R tell it ain't so. Since it is now well graded and being at high elevation won't make an alien try to crawl out of my right eye...no'mo Diamox, do you hear that Vince D. Man, you don't know how many flame wars you stopped that relevation, Tsunami.

I'd suggest you give this trip a little more thought.

Here's some words of wisdom...
1. The rangers do check your permit.
2. People do get turned around and fined for not having a permit
3. Day Hike permit are usually a problem, unless you want to go on the 4th, a weekend or Labor Day.
4. Flatlanders should not underestimate effects of AMS

Bill

Bill, did you mean to say dayhike permits are normally no problem to get on weekdays, or that they are hard to get on weekdays? I thought there were plenty for most weekdays?

Hey, Tsunami, I don't get around to Whitney that much anymore, so others may be better to answer your questions. They seem to change the rules every year, so you'd best check with the USFS.

Last I did this, you can get the permit the day before, and if you have a reservation, maybe long before. You take your chances to wait in line to get a permit the day before. Holidays are out for that. Mid-week is probably your best chance, but it would be sickening to come all the way from wherever and find out all spots are taken.

By July, the snow is usually gone, and yes, do get some good hiking boots. Make sure they fit! Go on a long walk to determine any problems. I've never been there other than when they have the cables up at the icy spot partway up the 97 switchbacks, so I don't know why they would take them down. Sure you're not thinking of Half Dome in Yosemite?

May/June will be probably too early, this season, so you may need snow and ice gear then ($$). This is turning out to be a normal snow year, so if you just want to summit, wait till July 1.

Hey 4x,
As far as I can remember, taking down the cables happens every winter.They usually go back up in May/June.

I agree, a Troll

Sierra, I know they take the cables down, but why?

4Xsummit, the lottery starts again this year Feb 1st? Will mountain climbing shoes work for July/August or do I need boots? What are considered great boots for the $? Will you take a look at www.moosejaw.com and recommend something you see there? Do many people take along Arcteryx waterproof jackets? I am thinking about buying the Alpha or Sidewinder, Sidewinder looks great for the money. I already bought Marmot waterproof guide pants that are waterproof yet breathe really well. I also bought a Gregory Whitney pack! It pays to be prepared!

4X, this is a link to a picture of the cables off just before summer season: http://members12.clubphoto.com/_cgi-bin/getImage.pl?imgID=19690939-1b3e&trans=

No cables link #2: http://members12.clubphoto.com/_cgi-bin/getImage.pl?imgID=19690943-cc72&trans=

Ken, thanks for the email! If you have any especially good Whitney pics, please send them my way. Roadrunner will allow messages up to about 5000kb to go through

There are usually several midweek dayhike permits available. This site showed available permits last year. http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/availability/whitney.html
The trail is very well maintained, so we use tennis shoes. It's not mountain climbing, but it is a long dayhike. This was only the second hike my wife and I did and it took us about 15 hours round trip. We were very sore the next day. Last year it only took us 9 hours round trip and we weren't sore the next day. If you get in good shape it shouldn't be a problem.

9 hours round trip! What is the record?

Don't just ask me! There seems to be some knowledgable people and locals who keep up on this. I did Whitney in Oct. 2001, and that's getting to be a long time ago!

Yes, do get good boots, although I see many in light hiking boots. These should be fine as long as they fit! I'll take sneakers over $300 plastic or other boots, if the former are more comfortable. By July this season, it looks to be little or no snow on the trail. This can change!

Don't buy boots over the Net! Go to a local shop and get them fit right. You don't need expensive boots, what probably the sales people will try to get you to buy. I used a sturdy pair of nylon boots ($70 on sale) and I could have gotten by with less (October, 2001, no snow at all). Comfort is all important! I can hardly advise you how to fit boots over this board, but put them on with at least two heavy to medium weight socks. Kick with your toes, and if you can feel the bump on your toes, they are too short. Flex with your heels lifting up, and if it rubs, don't get them. Walk around the shop floor (don't be rushed) and determine if you have anything that wears or rubs. If it is painful, do not get them!

There are good deals sometimes in the Bishop/Mammoth/Reno area, if you choose to get them when you are here. Buy the best ones, that fit, and do a hike with them as you acclimate. Unless you like hamburger for feet, listen to what I say. Have plenty of room for your toes, and save rubbing (then the blood and moleskin) your heels. Remember, high prices do not mean a good fit! I knew people to boast of getting some $10 clearance boots, to use them fine for 50 peaks.

Nice photos of the cables, so why do you ask basic stuff if these are yours?

The round trip record is some 4 hours, I think. This has come up on this board several times.

If you are going to buy new boots for Whitney I wouldn't wait until you get to California, buy them in Minn. and wear them all the way out here. Even if you get some lite-hikers that bend like sandals you can still get hamburger feet. Sneakers in July are a good idea if you have strong ankles. A better bet would be to get some mid-top day hikers (in the $70 range at REI) for better ankle support and torsion control.

Boy it sure is nice to see the more experienced guys (girls) on this board helping out the new guy instead of bashing each other. Just a thought.

Also, Tsunami all I can say is it is better to be over prepared than under prepared for your first Whitney experience. I checked things out for 8 months before my first time. Many people on this board are some of the most experienced Sierra hikers you will find, so get all the advice you can.

JJBB