Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Cathedral Peak for the inexperienced?

I'm going to Yosemite this June. I was scouting out possible climbs to do, and stumbled upon the majestic Cathedral Peak. I saw that it was rated as a Class 4 in some books and a Class 5 in others. Is it possible for two strong hikers that are not experienced in rock climbing to do this peak?

Check out the <A HREF="http://www.summitpost.com/show/mountain_link.pl/mountain_id/392">Cathedral Peak,</A> page on summitpost.com Specifically check out the West Face and Mountaineers Route. These are both scrambles to the ridge just north of the summit pinnacle. You can then follow some narrow benches and move up to just below the summit block. This is where there is a short class 5 climb. I went up the West Face Route and down the Mountaineers this past August.

This is a bit off the Whitney posts, but having done Cathedral some 6 times, I might say I can say something about this. I used to lead groups, too, with no problems except caused by inexperienced, misrepresenting (themselves) people.

The guides all say class 4. A rope is advised. And, you need to know exactly how to use it. Getting to the class 4 part, takes some class 3 route-finding. I'd say on a conservative level, it is not for hikers, however strong. If you are not aware of climbing technique, you will most certainly fall. At the harder part, it is about a 500 foot cliff which you will be above. It is simply not worth it. And then, you'll need to downclimb as well. You may climb upward to the top, but it is much harder going down. The granite is solid, so many climbers will do it without a rope. But then there are some who will climb the SE Buttress (5.6) sans ropes. Those I'd say, are the experts of the experts.

Yosemite is one of the most statistically deadly regions of the High Sierra, with so many tourists and neophytes encouraged, by some, to attempt to try what is an experts only climb. These often are not counted as "mountaineering accidents (by the AAC)," once in a time considered suicide.

No you do not get saved by a ranger, or whomever, like in the movies or other fiction. If you fall, which is likely for most hikers I know, you won't go up (to Heaven). You will be bashed heavily on rocks as you tumble down. Terrible sight, and to hear the screams.

It's well worth it to pay a guide, or take a rock climbing course, and pass, from a good outfit. I had a good time with the local YMS. How much do you value your life and the lives of your companions? All you'll need is even just a 9mm 100' rope, maybe $70 from REI. And a few medium sized chocks with slings. Of course, without a partner to use these things, or not knowing how to use them properly, they will be useless.

Then, you might be a novice climber who knows the physics and the technique. I led my first time, and my partner I had to train on the spot. Of course then, I was doing 5.7, and had just done the U-Notch Couloir on North Pal (5.4). Technically, it is laughed at by expert climbers, and I've seen some do it without ropes. I have the gear, and I consider it good practice to use my hardware (I hardly ever get to use it at all nowdays). It is a mountaineering classic, and John Muir did it solo. But then Muir supposedly hiked Mt. Dana (13,053') from Yosemite Valley in a day.

You are your own judge, and if you've never rock climbed, I doubt you'll do it. It looks harrowing, and most hikers will realize what really they're in for when they see it. Some are astounded by even a class 2 peak (it looks impossible).

As I often say, do a search on "cathedral peak," and get others accounts and opinions. Beware, though, Yosemite is a climbing mecca, and some may simply assume you are already a climber mainly by your looks, sometimes, and use the term "easy" to ascend that peak, when it will kill you.

I've got a picture in my photo gallery if you wish to see why most say, "you do not do that!"

Thank you both for your advice. I'll make sure that I'll be careful. It sounds liek a lot of fun. I might take an intro Rock climbing course, just to make sure I have the basics in case I get into trouble.

MGross> Cathedral Peak. I saw that it was rated
MGross> as a Class 4 in some books and a Class 5
MGross> in others.

It is a blurry distinction at best between class 4 and easy class 5. This final section is pretty steep, close to vertical, but is relatively short (about 15 feet) and has many good holds. The scrambling to get to this point involves low angle slabs and cracks and is a little tricky by itself.

MGross> Is it possible for two strong hikers that
MGross> are not experienced in rock climbing to
MGross> do this peak?

Sure it's possible. John Muir climbed it over 100 years ago all by himself. I've seen Boy Scouts in tennis shoes hopping around up there. Then again, it's also possible that you will fall to your death. Be careful is the best advice. The ground is really hard and it's forever.

4Xsummit> there are some who will climb the SE
4Xsummit> Buttress (5.6) sans ropes. Those I'd
4Xsummit> say, are the experts of the experts.

Flattery or ignorance. Free soloing the SE Buttress is not considered a big deal in the world of rock climbing. "Expert of experts"? Hardly. "Just another dumb****" is more like it.

4Xsummit> Yosemite is one of the most
4Xsummit> statistically deadly regions of the
4Xsummit> High Sierra

Interesting statement. Any references? Are you including non-climbing deaths (it seems somebody goes over one of the big waterfalls every year). How many deaths have there been on Cathedral Peak in the last 100 years? How about Mt. Whitney as a comparison? Can you break it down by routes and percentage of climbers?

EP, I was just looking through my "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" from 2001 and 2002, 4x pretty much hit the nail on the head with his reference to the amount of accidents that occur in Yosemite.During those two years there was 29 reported climbing accidents in California, of those 29 there was 17 accidents in Yosemite, 8 on Mt.Shasta and 1 on Whitney, plus some other single mishaps here and there.

Sierra Stryder, it isn't surprising that there are more accidents in Yosemite than in other specific parts of the Sierra. But that's not quite what 4Xsummit said. He said it is "one of the most statistically deadly regions of the High Sierra". This implies (1) deaths as opposed to accidents and (2) that there are a higher number of deaths per unit climber-days than elsewhere. It isn't enough to show that there are more deaths there; for the area to be more deadly than another area, one needs to demonstrate that you are more likely to die there on a given day or a given climb than elsewhere.

I'd hazard a guess that most of those accidents in ANAM were in Yosemite Valley (not exactly the High Sierra) and Tuolumne where there is a concentration of climbing that greatly exceeds that in most other regions of the Sierra. So it isn't an equal comparison.

As so many say or imply, I make some generalizations not surviving scrutiny by the astute. Indeed, by the ACC NAM, many or most of the CA accidents are in Yosemite, over the years I've followed that. Accidents per capita by climber/day units are definitely not of this observation! Most climbing has been or is in the Valley and TM, and I don't know who would keep track of who does what in the rest of the Sierra.

And "deadly" refers also to plain injury, in a lighter note, I defend myself here.

Whitney hikers aren't counted as mountaineering, by the AAC here, so unless you're a beginner trying the MR or get caught by weather, I doubt you'll wind up in the data base.

Free soloing the SE Buttress is not considered a big deal in the world of rock climbing. "Expert of experts"? Hardly. "Just another dumb****" is more like it.

I'd say these were experts of the experts, by their sign-ins. Top Yosemite climbers, by what I hear. Most all others I see are using ropes and hardware. Maybe you can do 5.12 free solo, but that would be, by my old 20th Century standards, experts of the experts of the experts!

And Muir did Cathedral solo about 1864, I think, not 1904, if we want to attack particulars!

It is a blurry distinction at best between class 4 and easy class 5. This final section is pretty steep, close to vertical, but is relatively short (about 15 feet) and has many good holds. The scrambling to get to this point involves low angle slabs and cracks and is a little tricky by itself.

All the books I have say class 4. I've done plenty of 5.0 and 5.1, and there is a big difference. Probably most climbers will decline to waste time on class 4, but not me. As a matter of course, while peak bagging, I've done a lot of rated 4s, and many climbers I know will free solo 4, but not 5. You'll need to know hand and arm jams, with a mantleshelf to do past the most exposed section. Then, either you rappel (most hikers will not do this right, meaning death) or downclimb, which I've seen regular peak baggers f-r-e-a-k out at. You would just have to be an exceptional hiker to do all this without lessons or ropes (presuming skill at using them). One mistake and you're really history! I seem to have known a now proclaimed 5.10 climber (by herself) who refused to do this easy short section near the top, and I don't know why. Either 1) too easy to waste time on, disregarding the time spent to get there, or 2) their attesting to be a great climber is another complete fabrication.

Watch out for "experts," as I always say!

Calling YNP deadlier than another place without considering the relative visitation rate is using statistics in a misleading fashion. By this logic, going to Yosemite is more dangerous than jumping over Niagra Falls since so many more people have died in Yosemite.

Sorry Pete, but free soloing the SE Buttress is not the realm of experts, much less the experts of the experts. The experts of experts have free soloed 5.13. Alexander Huber free soloed a long 5.12 route in the Dolomites last year. Most 5.11 solos no longer make news. Countless unnamed climbers routinely solo 5.8-5.10. The SE Buttress of Cathedral is mostly class 4 and easy 5th with a few places that rise to the level of 5.5 or 5.6. I know several ordinary wage slave city guys who struggle on 5.10 but have casually free soloed the SE Buttress on numerous occasions.

4Xsummit> And Muir did Cathedral solo about 1864,
4Xsummit> I think, not 1904

I didn't say 1904, I said "over 100 years ago".

4Xsummit> All the books I have say class 4. I've
4Xsummit> done plenty of 5.0 and 5.1, and there
4Xsummit> is a big difference

Most books say class 4, but Peter Croft, in his book "The Good, the Great, and the Awesome", calls the descent "easy fifth". In theory there should be a noticable difference between 4th and easy 5th, but in practice the variation in how the ratings have been applied makes the distinction muddy.

Thought I'd add my two cents on this topic -- however late.

I am mostly a backpacker, but like peak-bagging, too. I have only limited experience climbing with ropes. Over ten years ago, I took my son to the top of Cathedral when he was in fifth grade. I just climbed behind him so I could reassure him and tell him where to put his feet. We down-climbed the same way. No ropes are necessary.

A few years ago, I took three adults, and not one had any rope experience, and they all made it to the top and back, again with no ropes. They were saying some new swear words, but sure had big grins on their faces.

All you need is at least one person who is not afraid of heights and is able to talk the others through those last fifteen feet.

Another slick secret about Cathedral Lakes is the "fisnerman's trail" up to the lower lake. It is an abandoned trail, but now is quite heavily used, so is not hard to follow. It starts from a small (4-5 car) parking area exactly two miles east of the east end of Tenaya Lake. You get to Lower Cathedral Lake in less than an hour.

While many fit adults can climb up to 5.4 their first time, it's a safety matter. Are your companions lives worth the $50 for a short rope to insure against a chance slip? Read a book and know how to use a rope, it'll be better than nothing. You can hardly spot their moves from a safe place. Trying to grab them as they fall will only take you down, too.

You can bring a rope, and that doesn't mean you have to use it. Adults can refuse one, and then you may be in the clear if they fall. Once someone slips and falls, there are no ledges below they can drop down onto, or be rescued from. It's a smashing 500 feet down. No way you can reverse that decision.

Legally, you may be held for manslaughter or murder if you allow people to try this, knowing better. An old story I hear involved some Swiss guides who allowed their clients to roam unroped on a glacier. Someone fell into a crevasse and was killed. The guide was arrested the same day.

I have never seen anyone refuse the rope at a climbing gym. What does it prove, aside from extreme ego or stupidity? How many do you see at REI or wherever, doing a rock tower route unroped, and as easy as some of them are. They don't allow that, due to liability, and most know that. And do you see any of them downclimbing what they just climbed? No, they sit back and the belayer slides the rope through his/her hands, and they "walk" down. Can't do that on Cathedral.

Here is a description and some pictures of the last 15' of the Mtrs Route on Cathedral. The 3rd link is a picture of an alternate class 4 crack 10' high. Looks very doable without a rope. However, I can't see the exposure from where the picture was taken.

Looks like a fun climb!

http://www.summitpost.com/show/route_link.pl/route_id/194/object_id/392

http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_photos/cathedral_5/reg/DSC00019.jpg

http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_photos/cathedral_5/reg/DSC00020.jpg

My hat's off to that photographer! If the climber in the third picture fell, he'd take out the guy with the camera. Below them is the 500' or so of exposure. The photographer must have been leaning back a bit over the void. I've got some photos of the view downward, but they don't show much due to the angle and the shadows. And I can't drag and drop pix into this message box (would there be a lot of photos posted if I could!).

There's plenty of good climbers like I say, but I wouldn't try to free solo it except for big money. The gist of all this seems to be, it's not difficult for an experienced climber, but ambitious hikers? Big judgement call!