Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Ursack Question

Now, I know the Forest Service doesn't allow the Ursack on Mt.Whitney, but, that aside, has anyone actually ever used one? I was looking on the Ursack website and they have a new odor protection bag that you are supposed to place your food and smelly items in and then place the bag in the Ursack for protection.The bag is supposedly quite thick so odors won't escape out of the bag. Sounds like a good idea.

What would the Forest Service do to me if they discovered I was using the Ursack; fines, kick me off the mountain? Do the Forest Service Rangers actually check your bag or ask to see your cannister when you get your permit from them?

I am seriously thinking about getting one and if the Forest Service doesn't even know that I have one how can they stop me? If the TKO is as strong as it's supposed to be and if the odor bags really do their job I see no reason to not use the Ursack which is 2lbs lighter than the Garcia Cannister and half the price.
Any thoughts?Any info?

I considered and reconsidered getting one (are they still selling the older ones at sale prices?) for over a year. But for dealing with marmots and other rodent type critters and not necessarily bears. I'm talking Cascades where the bear problems are not as great anyway but we do have the occasional problem.

I can't imagine that they can seal in all odor, especially, if you handle it with "smelly" hands (G).

I would guess you would definitely risk a fine if caught. I have no idea how thorough the check but there was a ranger at Trail Camp when I was there but I do not recall seeing him check each camp for a canister. When it was on my pack (no ranger at that time) it was obvious it was there since it would not fit inside and was under the flap.

I guess the older models were not marmot proof, but the newer TKo is supposedly marmot and bear proof. Anyone else with some info?

If there was some magic bag that could totally seal out smells, drug dealers would be buying them all up. Second, though you may be skirting the letter and spirit of the law, it could be possible that in the long run you're helping to kill a bear. I have heard that the new Ursack is pretty marmot proof.

I agree with J.T.Lazarus, the purpose of carrying a bear cannister is just as much to protect the bears as it is our food. I know the debate over the garcia VS the "bearicade" canisters has come up from time to time, but if you're trying to cut back on the weight of your regular cannister, you can't beat the Bearicade. I bought mine about three years ago..and, yes, it was an investment that cost as much as my two-pound down bag, but it's a purchase I've not regretted.

I think the idea of the Ursack is good, but in areas where the bears are masters at spotting and retrieving food hangs, they're just not a wise choice.

I own a TKO and have used it once in the Kennedy Meadows area last spring and had no problems, I know this isn't a big enough sample for an accurate read. My intention when I purchased it was to use in in SoCal and Sierra areas below Horseshoe Meadows.

The problem with allowing this at Mt. Whitney is there are a bunch of clueless folks going up the mountain. If you said you could use it if you traveled to Trail Camp only confusion would reign.

My intention is to use it this summer for extra food and and trash when doing Onion Valley to WP. I talked to people who have done the same scofflaw thing. I figure to have one days worth of food in it at the end of day one of 7 day/6 night trip.

Bill

I've used the original Ursack for three years/30 trips, now (actually two, for other people on a trip). I've never had a problem. I do not carry them in prohibited areas, where I carry my can, but do everywhere else, which is most of the Sierra.

I am dumbfounded by the Park and Forest Service viewpoint on the subject. My experience is that 95% of people who hang food do it WRONG: too close to the ground, too close to the tree, simply tying a line to another tree, etc. While Ursacks have been documented to fail, this has been in exceptional circumstances, such as habituated bears in parks, who will spend hours to work on a bag. Ursacks work about 99% of the time, can't they do the math?
(shaking my head)

Great post Ken, my feelings exactly.If people hung their food correctly or used the Ursack where bears aren't super smart, this whole debate wouldn't be happening and the FS would let us save 3lbs from our pack and keep $50 in our wallet.

JT Lazarus: Good point about the "smell proof" bags.

I've never hung my Ursack, just using it on the ground, per instructions. I know it has withstood marmots and rodents, in addition to bears. (based on damage to other's things).

Remember, while a marmot may eat your radiator hose, I don't generally see them being bulletproof. The Ursack is made of that sort of material.

My partner and I used Ursacks and the odor bags on our trip to Whitney this year. We spend 5 nights at Iceberg lake. We just covered our bags with rocks. Each night we could hear marmots and rodents trying to get into the bags. They never did! We had the older version that we got on sale. The weight savings over the Garcia's was the primary reason for using them. My partner and I each had a bag and were able to store enough food for 5 nights.

I use bear canisters and the Ursacks. On our JMT trip, we carried both. I really like the Ursacks and I recommend them for times when a bear canister is not required. I also bought those odor barrier things you asked about, but those completely suck. Don't waste your money. They are just like big ziplock baggies, and not even that much thicker. I was surprised at how easily they tore and am very disappointed in the product. I didn't even use them after the first couple days on our trip, they were THAT useless. If they made them 10 times thicker, perhaps they might have some benefit, but as they are, don't waste your $$. But the Ursack itself is great. Happy Trails!

Looked into all this B4 I bought my lovely 3 lb Garcia bear can...

The issue with the Ursack as I understood it was that while the bear may not actually get to your food, by the time he's done trying, it'll have been crushed into a nice, tasty, blended pulp!

In other words, he may not be able to tear his way through the industrial strength material, but inner liner or not, he's going to know there's food in there and bite, chew, gnaw, claw, stomp, etc., the heck out of the bag in his effort to get to it. Your food will get pulverized in the process.

Re the odor bag: I once read that dogs have such sensitive noses that they could identify a single individual smell in a city the size of New York. Bears are said to have even more sensitive noses. I doubt if there's any way you could conceal from them that you have food inside. All the inner bag is going to do is lessen the level of "broadcasting" you're doing. (Which is immediately nullified once you start cooking.)

Clamber, the "crushing" issue is often brought up......by people who have not used them. I've only talked to one person who has had stuff mashed up at all, and they didn't think it was a problem. I've used mine on a lot of trips, and never had the problem.

Thanks! I didn't know! As you figured, I was just going on what others had said about 'em...

Buck and DH: Good information on the bagging theory. As a side note, I was looking through my copy of "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills", last night and the author suggested triple bagging your food when not using a cannister. I am going to try that this summer when I go against the FS rules and use my Ursack on the North Fork Route. Depending on how that goes I will use it again at Trail Camp later in the summer.

Ken: Good point on the crushed food topic. It seems people make a big deal about the possibilty of food being crushed but, 7 out of 10 times backpackers have freeze dried food and powder soup mix in their sacks anyways.It's not like it's a watermelon being crushed.

The Garcia, while near impossible to penetrate, is not the piece de resistance like it is made to be. I always went to great lengths to ensure that my Garcia was stored and cleaned properly. Whenever I used my Garcia I would always cover it with rocks at night, making a kind of house around it. I never had a bear or marmot or squirrel come close to inspecting it. But, I think people don't relise that the Garcia is not airtight either, just because there is a lid doesn't mean that smell can't escape. I mean, there's not even an o-ring around the inside, it's just two over-lapping edges that are supposed to keep smell in. This is not at all air-tight. I think the key to using the Ursack or Garcia is to just be smart about how you store it and to be sure to not smear any attractive agent on the inside or outside.
I wish the FS would re-consider this issue someday.