Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Bear Canisters?

So, it's been a while since I've done a Sierra backpack. What's the word on bears these days? I'm set to camp at about 10,200' near Greenstone Lake which is above Saddlebag Lake in the Tioga Pass area, outside Yose Nat'l Park.

I'm thinking that above 10,000' that the bear problem won't be bad and that an UrSack will be sufficient.

Thoughts?

HJ

You do know quite well that you're opening a giant can of worms with the post, right?

Bear canister requirements are a logical response to the average skill and experience of backpackers. If I were a land manager I would also require them widely.

But I don't believe canisters are required where you're going.

If it's legal to go without I go without. I would happily take one willingly for some areas where bears are likely, but 99% of my trips where I do take one it is only because they are required by law. I haven't seen or heard a bear in my backcountry campsite in over 25 years. Although I'm a light sleeper, it's possible they sometimes tip-toe through my campsite without disturbing me. But an ursack would either stop them or really slow them down. If one tried to get in I'd hear it and deal with it.

I'd go with the ursack. I took one on my last couple of trips and really loved not having a two pound barrel on my back.

I was just over Shepherds Crest two weeks ago, (above Saddlebag) visiting the McCabe's and saw fresh bear sign at the top.
While canisters are not mandatory here, suggest taking one along anyway.
I grow so very tired of these posts from people who feel that two pounds of weight is too much to carry just to protect the bear's health, especially when the hike mentioned is that short.
Sigh!

I had a bear raid my camp at Charlotte Lake in Kings Canyon (10,300') - it knocked over our canisters and left when nothing could be obtained from our food. The bears are learning that they can't open the canisters.

I have also had a bear raid our camp at Thousand Island Lake, and, unfortunately, some of the scouts in our group somehow decided that the bears wouldn't come out in the rain and didn't bother to close their canisters. One of the scouts lost all of his food halfway through a six day trip.

An Ursack might keep the bear from eating your food, but it won't keep the bear from turning your food into mush as it tries to chew the Ursack open. My vote is with a canister.

My little Bear Vault serves so many purposes...
- prevents my Cheetos from getting crushed (applies to other snacks as well),
- works great as a stool in camp (or tent),
- etc, etc, etc,
that I don't really mind the weight the few times that I go out on overnights.

Aki and others have mentioned even lighter cans on many occasions.

Bearikade! http://www.wild-ideas.net/the-weekender/

An investment to be sure. At least the one I bought last year is now worth more than I paid for it..... Can rent them too....

I've got a Garcia canister (~3 lbs) and an UrSack (~8oz.), so having the gear isn't the issue. Weight is always an issue, but 3 pounds isn't the end of the world if I keep other things light, and this isn't a hard or long hike.

The main issue for me is bulk. If I carry a canister, I can't carry my favorite/most comfortable pack which is ~45L capacity and have to carry a 70L pack instead. And I just hate packing into and packing around the bear canister. An Ursack is so much easier and more versatile.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and for the report of the bear encounter above 10,000.

HJ

Yup!
Your comfort is so much more important than the bear's.
Screw the canister...who cares. That bulk issue really swayed me over.
(sarcasm and disgust!)
.

Well, gee, thanks for your understanding.

Anyway, I'll probably take the canister. We're going in, setting up a base camp, and doing a peak from there. If there is a bear issue, and it sounds like there may well be even above 10,000', then the canister is the more suitable piece of gear.

HJ

If you're heading up the East Side, and you'll be passing by Lone Pine after Sat. morning, I can let you borrow my BV. It would probably appreciate a trip out into the wild...rather than rotting in the HOT garage.

I've squeezed it into a 30L pack...

Send me an e-mail if you're interested... address is in my profile.

Taking a canister…good call! Thanks.

Sorry if I came off as a hardass but…Continued wilderness freedom comes with but a few important caveats:
LNT, whether or not camp fires are permitted, what type of stoves are/are not allowed where, the no soap issue, (sadly) quotas, and most important - always protect the critters.
Other than that, you can do whatever floats your boat. Have fun.

Hi there Mark! LOL!! I was JUST going to chime in here and repeat something you said to me YEARS ago when I was in a "pissing match" with another poster on the Board: "What's going on Mark, you don't normally react like this..." *See below

Mark, I don't think you've met "Hiking Jim" yet, but he's a great guy and a conscientious hiker. Ditto for Mark, Jim.

* So Mark, this instance happened probably in the early 2000's... someone had posted what I thought was a ridiculous post (it was) but I reacted to it, and it all went downhill from there. ...learned my lesson though! I don't know if you remember it but your comment kinda defused the situation. I don't think I ever thanked you for that. Thanks!

Offer much appreciated, Richard. I'm passing through Lone Pine Friday afternoon, so it's probably a "no go," but I'll shoot you an email just in case. I'd actually like to try a BV just to see what it's like; I've only used a Bearikade and a Garcia.

HJ

Well, an Ursack might well be enough, but my opinion (for what it's worth) is that an Ursack has to be "attended" to really work well with a bear. In other words, one has to be prepared to try to scare the bear off. I think that most bears, given enough time, will eventually defeat an unattended Ursack. Just my unscientific impression of the device after about 5 years worth of use.

In the specific case of this trip, we'll be away a good part of the day peak bagging. I therefore think the canister is the better choice given the two observations of (presumably) recent bear activity above 10k.

No worries. Do note that I mentioned that I own my own canister. I can't say that I like canisters, but like taxes and changing dirty diapers, sometimes you just have to do it. I can't think of anyone who would want to carry a 70L pack when a 45L will do, but that isn't the only criteria I'd base a decision on.

One thought, though: I've been around various boards and such, so I know that canisters vs. Ursacks vs. "bear bagging" is a controversial subject. A new comer might be put off, and all of us who'd like to see the wilderness well taken care of might lose the chance to have some influence on them. "Sometimes you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" as my mother used to say. 'Nuff said.

HJ

Hmm. Well, if Rosie vouches for you, you must be OK.

Good thing, too. My hiking partner has a short temper and carries a big stick. I was just about to unleash her. Don't make me do something we'd both regret.



HJ

My experience:
The really cool thing about seeing a Bear in the Sierra...
Seeing how fast it can accelerate to about 35MPH!
And how fast the cubs can climb big trees!

It would probably be a lot different if it was holding my pack, or goody bag, in its mouth... but I've never experienced that yet.

BTW, a comment RE: Bears over 10K'... I once saw bear tracks all the way up the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek and over Whitney/Russell Col. I think it made it a multi-day adventure because there were spots where you could tell it had probably bivouacked.

I have never run into a bear anywhere in the Sierras but I've encountered hungry marmots in 90% of our trips.

We often bring a bear canister mainly for protecting ourselves against the smaller headaches.

Good point.

HJ

I've run into bears at 12,000 feet, marmots and other small thieving critters everywhere. The bear can goes with me everywhere. Peace of mind, nice place to sit, and instant sign to a bear that there's nothing to get in my camp.

Well, I had to get a little creative, but I managed to stuff all my gear and my bear canister into my ~45L pack. I won't say it's pretty. A couple of items had to go. Let's just say that if it gets cold, I'll be turning in early.

It's a little top heavy, but I think it will work.

HJ