Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board A few questions

My brother and I are getting ready to attempt our first summit of Whitney on this Friday July 1st 2011. We are planning on starting from Whitney Portal around 2 AM. I did have a few questions that I was hoping some of you might be able to answer:

1. We are both young 22 and 25, and in excellent shape (can both run a half-marathon or more without much difficulty). We are coming from sea-level and will not have the opportunity to acclimate to the altitude. Historically neither of us has had any issues with altitude sickness. Given these considerations and the fact that we have adequate mountaineering skills we should be able to make the summit right?

2. I understand that the switchbacks are impassable and that the Chute is the only way to the top. How difficult is it to locate the Chute? We have a map, compass, and GPS, but do not see it clearly marked.

3. Also since we will be traveling in the dark for the first 2-3 hours of our journey, and it will be a completely new moon. How difficult will it be to follow the trail to get to the Chute? My understanding is that once you get above the chute the trail is still somewhat treacherous but fairly easy to follow and more or less free of snow. According to the park service some of the trail on the way to the bottom of the chute can be somewhat hard to follow.

Thanks very much in advance to any of you who are willing to take the time to answer my questions.

-Christopher Lathen
-San Diego

I have attempted the summit twice and succeeded once at Whitney, so I am hardly an expert, but I have also summited a 15,000-foot peak in Africa and have a done a lot of training hikes at altitude. No doubt the experts on this board will set you straight where I'm wrong, but here you go:

1. Altitude sickness is a funny thing: It treats everyone differently and, as I understand it, has little regard for physical fitness. No matter your age or fitness level, ascending from sea level to over 14,000 feet in a single day certainly puts you at risk. Listen to your body, and when you're above Trail Camp (12,000'), observe each other closely for signs of disorientation. If that occurs, descend immediately. As I understand, there are two types of altitude sickness that can hit you: Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS), which is caused by lack of oxygen in the air and can hit at any altitude above the Portal; and High Altitude Cerebral Edema (HACE), which is caused by swelling in the brain that results from low air pressure at very high altitudes (typically above 12K feet), comes on suddenly and without warning, and is often fatal. The very weekend that I first attempted Whitney last year, another group of (very young, very fit) climbers summited on a day hike and then reported on this board that one of their group made it all the way to the top without problems, then became extremely disoriented while there, so much so that he couldn't find his feet when told to put on his crampons. Fortunately that guy made it back down, but as I understand it, it wasn't before a couple of very hairy moments traversing ice on the back side and before the sheriff's department scrambled a helicopter to help out. The moral is: Don't make the summit your mission ... listen closely to your bodies and be prepared to stop short if one of you is ailing. The only cure for either form of altitude sickness is descent. With AMS, descent is easy; with HACE, it can be very treacherous.

2. The Chute is a grind, but then again, so are the switchbacks. From Trail Camp to Trail Crest, you'll ascend roughly 1700 feet. In late summer, you do this over approximately 2.5 miles on 97 (or 98 or 99) mind-numbing switchbacks. Under current conditions, you do it over a single mile, straight up the side of the hill. Either way, most people need a couple of hours or more. I've done it both ways, and I found the Chute both more grueling and more exciting. Once you hit Trail Camp, you'll have no problem finding the Chute. There's only one way up, and it'll be obvious. There will be others on the trail as well -- you won't be alone.

3. Based on what I've been reading on the board, the trail should be clear and easy to follow at least to Mirror Lake, which is roughly 4.5 miles in and at something like 10,500 feet. By then you should be at or near daybreak. I'm not sure what to expect between Trailside Meadow and Trail Camp, but I suspect you'll have enough light then to find the trail without problem.

I too plan to summit on Friday. Starting up from the Portal tomorrow midday and spending the night at Trail Camp. Planning to start up the Chute no later than 7:00 am on Friday. We're a group of three middle-aged guys. Maybe we'll see up there. Either way, have fun and be safe!

The biggest route finding challenge on the way to Trail Camp is at Trailside Meadow. There are several sets of footprints. Avoid following the tracks going off to the left and gently ascending a snowy hill. These lead to a drainage that's hard to climb out off. We stayed hard against the rocks to the right for about 100'. This lead to the snow free switchbacks. At the top of the switchbacks you will be faced with crossing a snow chute. It's about 300' but it's straight across. We didn't need crampons. You might be able to glissade down on the way back.

I don't know what other people have been doing for water but refilling at Trail Camp isn't very convenient. I would refill down at Trail Side Meadow or just past Trail Camp on the way to the chute. There's lots off running water running down some of the exposed switchbacks.

Christopher, Welcome to the ultimate day hike. You guys really need to get up to the portal asap so you can acclimate.
We've hiked whitney 7 times with 7 summits. knock on wood.
Altitude sickness can effect anyone even if their young and
in great shape.
What we do is take 2 aspirin at the portal-then again at the top
of the switchbacks-and then again at the summit.
If you do feel light headed on the switchbacks . Stop for a few minutes and collect your thoughts. You allready know to drink
plenty of fluids, gatoraid 50/50 or whatever you like.
We travel light. Our packs weigh around 15lbs which is mostly water.
Be prepared and whitney will be good to you.
I know people that can do whitney in as little as 10 hours and as much as 19 hours.
Its not a race, a sprained ankle is something you dont want to deal with.
MOST important You WILL reach the summit if you have the willingness inside.
BE SAFE and have a great trip!!

@Unitedwestand, that's our attitude. "Get it done even if it takes a long time." Packs are weighing in at just under 15 pounds including water. I assume we will want to dress pretty warm as it is going to be in the 30s-40s? You suggest Aspirin instead of Ibuprofen to counteract some of the unpleasantness of altitude sickness?

We've always used the old fashion aspirin and save the ibuprofen
to help deal with the pain at the end. But i think either one is fine. Oh ya when your done hiking you need to stop at the pizza factory pizza. and or stop at the portal the food is the best
doug knows what hes doing.

Good luck Christopher! You've gotten some great advise. I'm neither an athlete nor young and have managed to get my butt up there without incident. I sometimes chew on the baby aspirin when I get headaches above 13K (where they usually hit me). There is a great feeling of accomplishment in summiting Whitney the first time, though it's not that difficult of a hike - weather, body issues and whatnot can come into play - 22 miles is 22 miles!!! Try to keep a slow and steady pace and not start off all gung ho like. Again, good luck to you!

Christopher, the great unknown on your hike is the response to altitude. The advice that I give people, that I picked up from one who I greatly respect with way over a hundred ascents, and many people successfully led up the mountain: stop every hour and sit down for 10 minutes. This allows your body to do some acclimatization, for you to drink some water, for you to rest your leg muscles (which does NOT happen if you are standing).

The time lost is insignificant. The cummulative effect on your body as the day goes on can be massive, particularly on the most difficult physical part, which comes later...the downhill. Once you are exhausted, there is nothing you can do to compensate.

My group wrote one of the definitive scientific altitude papers on Whitney, which included interviewing a couple thousand hikers attempting the summit one summer. Experts? Your call.

DON'T be in a hurry if you are not acclimated. Have fun.

Ken, I would be very interested to read your papers. I work in a lab at UCSD that does research on obstructive lung diseases. We have done work involving hypoxia, and participated in seminars with researchers who have studied chronic mountain sickness in populations in South America.

I also know and respect the other Bob who advises Ken (and everyone else) to "stop every hour and sit down for 10 minutes." However, I strongly disagree with this advice.

The key is to establish a pace that you can sustain and then sustain that pace. KEEP MOVING! If you can't go 10-20 minutes without stopping to catch your breath, SLOW DOWN! I rarely stop, let alone sit down, on a long hike unless I have a good reason to do so.

Here's an example: Last July, I did my first Whitney Double at age 61. The first trip up the Mountaineer's Route and back, I never stopped for more than a minute, and I never sat down. I just kept moving at a pace I thought I could sustain. Between trips, I sat down at the car to eat, repack my pack, change shoes, question my sanity, etc. On the second trip, I went up the Mountaineer's Route again. The only time I sat down was at Trail Crest to change my sox on the way back down. The last thing I needed was spend one sixth of my time sitting on my ass while my legs got stiff. That would have added nearly four hours to a twenty-hour day!

The higher you are, the more important it is to pace yourself and keep moving. When you stop for ten minutes between Trail Crest and the summit, it's natural for your breathing to slow way down. This increases the likelihood of AMS. When you finally get going again, it's really tempting to go too fast, which promotes exhaustion. If you keep moving slowly, you reduce both altitude problems and exhaustion. Obviously, you need to eat, drink, get a jacket out of your pack, take a few pictures, take a leak, etc. Feel free to stop as needed. But if you're stopping very often to rest, even for a minute, you're probably going too fast.

Everything in your post, well said and that is how I personally do my hikes. Thanks!

Berne Mettenleiter aka "Mountaingoat"

Christopher, check your private mail.

Bob, I appreciate your point of view. One of the reasons I think I originally got interested in altitude was because of how terribly it affected me. I simply could not understand what people where talking about, when they could do things like a one day hike of whitney, unacclimatized. Unfathomable. I've come to understand the remarkable variation in genetic variability in this aspect of the human condition.

I guess I've also come to appreciate all the other variables that come into play, particularly in a scenario such as the one presented here. A question is asked, 2 days before a hike. There will be no acclimatization.

I also assume that there are 100 other people reading this, that are making their own conclusions from what they read. Age, weight, packweight, illnesses, drugs, clothing, interest and motivation, experience, inebriation, lack of sleep, pregnancy,

Christopher asked a question about summiting, which involved altitude. All the research seems to say that the most important predictor of development of symptoms is the rate of ascent: the faster you go, all things being equal, the more likely you are to get it.

Going sustainably slow is the key to reducing the liklihood. Most people I see hike do not hike for a sustainable hour. That would be the best pace. They hike faster and break more often.

But that is probably still too fast. The question is, how to measure the rate? A regular break cuts that rate to a somewhat lesser rate, say, 80% of that comfortable max. For those genetically blessed, fire away, for those who will hit a wall if they try, this gives them, also, a chance.

As for the sitting, for the average person who takes 7-10 hours to summit, I find few people stay on their feet for that many hours in their daily lives. Their "anti-gravity" muscles are not used to taking that kind of a sustained beating, only to be followed by a much TOUGHER downhill beating for many more hours. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I would suspect there is substantial and measurable muscle damage to those who are not used to this, who will be needlessly miserable for days afterwards.

But, everyone should make an informed choice, I'd think.

Ken,

The number of your posts on this board may mean you might be an expert!

No offense please!

Berne Mettenleiter

Yikes! None taken.

Probably more a reflection of interest and longevity.

Christopher et al. Well, this is 2 days late and a few dollars short... Hope your hike went well.Definitely interested in how it went. Sept 28 will be my 6th trip over about 40 years. I'll be leading a group of 8-10 Whitney neophytes on a 1 day trip. 1st time was overnighter. Drove up and started out. Ended up with headaches and nausea but sumitted. Didn't know much before about altitude or hiking. Even used sterno to heat our food! Since have learned when to plod on and when to turn around! For me an important aspect has been dealing with nausea which I usually get. I use ginger root, in either tabs, candy, etc to soothe my stomach. Within 10-20 minutes of onset of nausea, my stomach is settled. I really enjoy this board especially for above postings. Differing ideas and experiences, but handled in a respectful, friendly manner. 99.9% of postings here have been that way.
Regards,
Bob

Made it to the top! Without a doubt the greatest physical accomplishment of my life. See my post "July 1st Climb" for a pic of me on the summit and a link to my photo album of the trip.