Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Permit Question

Hi What does it mean on the permit form: group leader? Thanks Doug

Hurm...I could answer that one but that would go against one of my New Year's resolutions.

I think that's why I like to get my own permit. I can be in charge of myself.

Happy New Year!

If I remember well, the other members in the group can't use the permit without the group leader. So, essentially that person needs to be present.

Doug: Great question.

Tracie; Since I didn't make that New Year's resolution, isn't the group leader "he who leads them down the wrong path?" or "the Big Boss who carries the lightest pack?" or "he who tried to climb it once about a dozen years earlier?"

Sorry, sometimes I get a bit cynical.

That's the person who's supposed to make sure everybody else in the group gets down before they do, so Doug doesn't have to go up and make sure they are OK before SAR gets the call. (run on, I know...)

Can we make up a poster for the IAVC that states this in a more concise (sp?) manner?

That is the person who can pick up the permits. I believe all members of the group can be named as the group leader so that if one or all but one cannot make the hike those that can are allowed to pick up the permit(s).

KAC49

I think KAC49 is correct. I believe the group leader in the permit process is the individual who can modify the permit itself, and who will sign that they've been briefed regarding the various regs (bears, camping, poop, etc). And, I think any/all others can be designated as alternates.

To add a little: If its like other areas that require wilderness permits, its also the person who's responsible for making sure the group follows the regulations on stuff like camping, littering, dogs, campfires (or prohibitions of them), food storage, choice of "potty places," etc. If there's a citation issued by a backconutry ranger the permit holder gets cited along with the person in the group who violated a regulation.

(You don't want to know how I know . . . . )

Criminy! I thought that it was the paranoid schmuck who had the misfortune of always arriving at the permit office beefore everyone else....

There's the winner.

I suspect it was a rhetorical question.

No doubt, but it generates some very interesting responses. Makes you wonder how many definitions of "group leader" are out there among the various and sundry permit-holders.

"Group Leader" ............ isn't there a saying that says the captain that goes down with the ship is always a DEAD captain?

Obviously the hikers from Nebraska didn't understand the concept of Group Leader. Not sure, but I thought their group Leader had already boarded a plane heading home when his group became "stranded".

I guess that's why they call submarines 'boats' instead of 'ships'.

Dale B. Dalrymple

That was the first thought that ran through my mind when I read Doug's initial post.

INFS has a clear definition of "group leader" when it comes to permitting, but often the folks on the other side of that permit think differently. More often than not, I suspect the person designated group leader is named more for the sake of some convenience than because they intend to take complete responsibility for the group, or are the most capable hiker or climber, etc. That's where the disconnect occurs when something goes wrong.

Makes me think of the old Alfred E. Neuman Mad cartoons - "What! ME worry?"

Hey, Doug, that's a great topic. If I give another talk for Kurt, this will be one of my 'audience' participation slides!