Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Ditched WAG Bags - PLEASE HELP PACK OUT

Two weeks ago, a friend and I reached the summit of Mt. Whitney via the East Face Route. It was a fantastic climb on a beautiful day. Unfortunately, reaching the summit was bittersweet...

On the summit plateau, I was shocked and disappointed to see numerous WAG bags discarded here and there under and behind blocks, having been hidden by hikers/climbers who thought it too burdensome to pack out their own waste. My partner and I packed out as many WAG bags as we could fit in our climbing packs (only a few).

I don't believe anyone who posts here would do such a thing; I realize this is a longstanding problem in the area (as in most). I don't mean to come across as self-righteous or sanctimonious (outdoor ethics weren't a priority in my younger years).

If you're planning a Mt. Whitney trip, please consider leaving some space in your pack to bring down a WAG bag or two (and any garbage you see along the way). I realize how much I'm asking here - packing out your own waste is unpleasant enough, hauling down a stranger's is certainly above and beyond.

If only a few do so, it will make a huge difference. The summit of such a beautiful mountain should not be tainted as such, nor should anyone's achievement of having reached it.

Thank you!

You are my new hero....

Congrats to you. I hate wag bags, but you gotta walk the talk when you "do" Whitney. It wasn't too bad a few weeks back. I'm not sure who these people are who leave the WB's. Maybe first timers should have to sign off on an educational video at the visitors center in Lone Pine.

Here's a thought: issued wag bag (used or unused) returned to the LP InterAgency Center = permit fee refund. I'd be just fine with a more pristine mountain versus a few bucks missing out of the national treasury (add a few more zeros, it still wouldn't be missed . . .)

I don't get it - why make this mountain a focus of your life for weeks/months/years, then abuse it with the worst possible trash? Somebody tell me again how personal responsibility really isn't an endangered concept. It pisses me off to no end when I read that Bob Rockwell - of all people - is regularly hauling down other hikers' left-behind crap (pun so intended).

td, thanks for your extra effort. For what it's worth, when quillansculpture and I were on the summit a few weeks ago we found a wag bag in the summit hut. We did bring that one down . . .

Yea, what Bulldog didn't tell you was he was in shock when he saw the wag bag in the hut. Then he reached over and picked it up because he wanted to get it out of there and off the mountain. He said, "hey Joe, it hasn't been used". I said I would take it since I had already used mine and "needed" another one.

I think Garys idea is a good one, and one I've heard before. I figure there are a few hundred people who hike Whitney every year or every couple of years. Those people are not the problem. The problem are the inconsiderate one timers who think they are too good to bring their own waste down the mountain. I've been up Whitney 3 times in the last year. One time, I saw no wag bags at all. One time over 20 behind a rock formation. The next time, I think there were 3.

If anybody has a good idea what to do.....please post. And I guess I was wondering about the hikers with the dog on the trail. Did they wag bag their dogs poop?

I left that last sentence unfinished 'cuz I knew you'd jump in and complete it! When I said "Hey, it's unused," your eyes lit up like it was Christmas morning! One second I'm holding it, the next - poof! It disappeared!

I've had my dog on the MR a few times (it's national forest land so it's allowed, unlike on the MT) and I have ALWAYS poop-scooped and wag-bagged his business. In fact, I always will 'wagbag' his poop rather than burying it when we hike in other areas, as well. While bears are allowed to sh*% in the woods, dogs are not native and I believe their poop is invasive and harmful to other animals in the wilderness.

If I finish my climb late, I have to keep the used WAG bag in my car until the next morning to get my $15 back? What if I want to head home before the visitor center opens? Will they have a manned station outside where I get my refund? Or do I just take it inside to the main desk? How do they make sure I don't claim two refunds? And what keeps me from stashing the bag in my car, crapping on the trail, and then returning the unused bag for a refund?

The $15 fee is for a reservation. The permit is free. People who get walk-in permits don't pay $15. People who self-issue their permits November – April don't pay $15. Do they get "refunds" too?

The Inyo National Forest, whose budget is quite a bit smaller than the Pentagon's, would have to spend considerable money administering refunds and would lose out on the money they gave back.

I can't think of a reasonably feasible solution. Lots of outhouses or WAG bag receptacles along the trail would cut down on the mess, but would cost a ton of money, which they would pass on to us in the form of fees. Having more rangers to issue huge fines to the worst offenders would have similar effects.

Mt. Shasta charges everybody $20 to climb. The $20 basically goes for potty patrol at Helen Lake, babysitters for climbers who have no business being there, and checking permits to make sure everybody paid $20.

More climbers with the courage to shame the slackers is about the best I can come up with.

The solar toilets were built...now they are gone...

The WAG bags replaced them...now people just don't pack their own out.

Some people PROBABLY don't use their WAG bags at all...

There will be no solutions to this ongoing problem, except for those who go above and beyond and pick it up to pack it out for those who do not.

Maybe when permits are picked up, maybe the rangers at the Visitor Center can place labels or write name, address, and phone numbers on the WAG bag.

Phone: "You left your WAG bag at the summit or along the trail! Since we have a WAG bag with your name on it, you can forget about applying for any Whitney Lottery for the rest of your life! After all, you did read and initial the paper acknowledging you would comply."

Mail: "You left your WAG bag at either the summit or along the trail. Please deposit your WAG bag in your own receptacle. No need to apply for another permit."

It is sad.

It's really sad that people even need to be reminded to pack their sh*t out. It is so basic, so commonsense, it should not have to be mentioned.

If people are not going to respect the mountains and the surroundings, they should not be there in the first place.

--Amin

I believe more receptacles would be great.....and go ahead and charge $20 or $25 for a permit (ALL PERMITS, even walk ups.)I know I'd pay more. Regulars often don't use the lottery and they are not the problem, but hiking Whitney for free when the costs of a trip to Whitney aren't that exorbitant seems silly. Campsites for hikers are only $10.00. Food is usually brought or gotten at Dougs for a reasonable price.

As far as catching the poopers, I've never seen one, just what they've left behind. Maybe putting up a sign with an unusually insane fine....let's say $1500.00. Put two or three along the trail. If you don't want to pack your poop, then stay off the mountain.

It may just come down to money. I mean, how much does Mt Whitney mean to you and what would you pay for a permit to make sure it's clean.

OK Bob, stone-cold sober idea # 2 (maybe that's the problem): use the good old orange-jumpsuited inmates for wag bag search-and-pack-out runs up the mountain once a month or so during the high season. Wag Bag Chain Gang. Penitentiary Poop Patrol. Your tax dollars at work.

The technology is there already. The GOV charges your CC 50 for your bar coded wag bag. Upon return to the trail head you insert your used or unused bar coded wag bag into the vending machine and your CC is charged back your 50 dollars.

Think it can't work? You should see what they are doing with vending machines in Hong Kong and Japan.

Oh, and make purposely leaving a wag bag a death penalty case.................................................DUG

Uh uh...no toilets...glad they took them out because no one knew how to use them, for crying out loud!

I have seen those rangers toting empty barrels on their backs to empty out the solar at Outpost Camp.

I feel they are more deserving than that.

Having shoveled cow and pig manure in my early years, I cannot imagine having to haul out e coli infested human waste.

Please make me the executioner!!!!!

Human nature being what it is, the "Wag Bag" system is unlikely ever to be "leak proof". Nobody would really like to handle their own waste getting it into the bag, especially if it's squishy, and who wants to carry the nasty thing around for days...
A few dedicated boy scout types may do so and cloak themselves in a glow of self-satisfaction, but many won't.

I'm not really attempting a value judgment at all, simply pointing out that people will do what's expedient, especially if they know they're not being watched, and the Forest Service administration has set up a system of dubious practicality.

Human waste is not really an environmental problem per-se, but instead it's a problem for humans using the area in that it represents a vector for the spread of human pathogens to humans, as in the spread of Cholera along the Platte River Valley in the early days of migration to the West. Of course it's an aesthetic problem for Humans using the MWT. Other than having the MWZ transferred from the Forest Service to Federal or State Park, charging admission, and establishing facilities, I don't really have a clue how this issue will ever be resolved.

I haven't had one get close to a "leak" as of yet. My buddy last year had bad diarrhea.....and no leaks from that one either. So, I think it still goes back to the individual.

Hey, you either listen to the rules or you don't. My perspective is: "You don't crap on my mountain". I use my as anyone who cares about the majesty of one of the most beautiful and majestic places on earth.

I don't like pooping in those bags anymore than anyone else, but to think other people should pick it up or clean it up for you is absurd, disrespectful and just plain F'ed up.

No need for the death penalty. All you have to do is have it so that the person who is returning the wagbag gets the $50 (instead of a charge back to the CC). I'd bring up a fairly empty backpack and carry as many as I could. Ten wagbags = $500....yup, that problem solves itself.

I think having a wagbag stash point around outpost camp would solve a lot of the problem. Nobody wants to pack the wagbag to the top, so have it so you can drop off the bag and then pick it up on the way down.

Any kind of refund scheme will just be a nuisance. If WAG bags were worth $50 apiece to whoever brought them back, stealing empty ones could become quite profitable. That would leave the rightful owner with no way to get his $50 back and no choice but to crap in the Whitney zone.

As I pointed out before, there is no way to prevent someone from stashing the bag in his car, crapping on the trail, and then returning the empty bag for the refund. And please don't suggest that only full bags get the refund. It's quite possible to climb Mt. Whitney without stopping to crap, in a WAG bag or otherwise.

"Maybe when permits are picked up, maybe the rangers at the Visitor Center can place labels or write name, address, and phone numbers on the WAG bag."

I think a simple ID number would suffice, not neccessarily disclosed. (they'll cut it out)

Your WAG bag is found on the mountain, you are charged $100, you are banned from backpacking permits on ALL PUBLIC LANDS for 5 years.

If you are not draconian, you will not get people's attention and change behavior!