Mt. Whitney Portal Store & Hostel Forums General Mt. Whitney Portal Store Message Board Possibly December Trip

Myself as well as a few of my buddies want to make a trip up to Whitney this December. I've been reviewing posts from over the past year trying to determine what to expect (although not really possible without knowing the particular weather at the time). I've made the summit in the summer but now we're looking for something a little more challenging. I'm confident, yet not stupid. I have minor snow experience myself. Is the trail difficult to follow in the winter? (depending on weather conditions). I have proper equipment and everyone in my party will as well. We'd be going out with a goal of having a good trip. Any suggestions\comments would be great.

It's impossible to say at this point. Usually, by December, serious winter storms have transmogrified the Whitney trail hike into a full-on winter mountaineering experience. You still follow pretty much the route of the trail, although you can't see it because of the snow (small sections are visible, though, and the entire section from Trail Crest to the summit). From Trail Camp to Trail Crest the preferred route is directly up the chute to the right of the switchbacks.

But the last few years have been a little different. In December '99 and '00 I was still making day climbs of the Whitney trail, where what little snow was there amounted to only a dusting in places. In fact, my log shows a day climb on Jan. 7, 2000. Summer conditions in some respects, but the daylight hours and temperatures are of course quite wintry.

My impression is that there is no "in between." The conditions are summer-like (except for daylight and temperatures) until that first serious storm. Then, essentially overnight, Mt. Whitney becomes a real winter climb until May or so.

I would venture a guess that serious winter storms have held off until late December or January in about 4 of the last 20 years.

Obviously, it is not possible to say what the conditions will be that far in advance. As Bob R said, it may turn out to be an easy one day hike in cooler than summer conditions with fewer daylights hours. Or it can be a couple of days of tough trail-breaking through deep snow. The key to winter climbing is to be prepared to be weathered in for a day or two - winter tent (I like Bibler), zero degree (or even warmer) bag, extra fuel (you will need to melt snow for drinking water) and food, warm clothes, ski goggles, etc. Snow shoes are also great if there is deep, soft snow. Snow wands to mark your trail are also a good idea.

I appreciate all the extra information. I have taken a lot of time to read up information so I think in that sense I will be ok. My party has three months to purchase any gear we need that we don't already have. The main concern of mine right now is the need for mountaineering boots. I have a nice pair of solomans that i've used for some time now and they have treated my feet great in dry and wet conditions but never snow. With a nice gaiter I think they should be fine. If anyone has any comments on that please feel free to share. As much information as possible would be great!

Do they work with crampons? Do you know what crampons are? Do you know how to use them? On and on and on.

In the winter, you have to assume that you won't be able to see the trail, that you will need snow equiptment and you better know how to use it.

Practice on smaller mountains first!

Extreme,

Have you seen Bob R's "Whitney Miscellany" photos of the back side of the trail in winter conditions? I assume you have. If not, see rows 8-9 in this album:

http://members12.clubphoto.com/robert634908/943486/guest.phtml

Looks very different than the summertime trail!

BobR, have you ever summited Shasta? If you have, how does Whitney in winter compare?
I am assuming they are a bit alike, if so the crampons and ice ax are essential pieces of equipment, plus the knowledge to use them. No need bringing an ice ax along if you're only going to drop it as you go sliding down the side of the mountain into the ravine thousands of feet below, learn how to self arrest BEFORE you start hiking. Unless of course there's no snow, but it sounds like that's what you want to hike in.
Sounds like a cool trip, prepare well, as you are doing and have a blast!

I've climbed Mt. Shasta six times. It's a long drive for me - 12 hours each way - so there has to be a good reason. Usually the reason has been expedition training, so we chose to go under winter conditions to the north side: the Whitney Glacier. This route involves a lot of ice ax and crampon use, and ropes for a goodly part of it because of crevasses. So it's considerably more serious than Mt. Whitney in winter.

Once was on New Year's and we climbed Avalanche Gulch. I don't recall it much, but we did need and use ice axes and crampons. This route is probably more serious than Whitney in winter because the ice/snow ratio is higher; at least I recall it that way.

But definitely, for most of the winter, ice ax and crampons are required up and down the chute below Trail Crest, and an ice ax is nice for a few short sections on the back side. Nowhere else, though.

Yea, i have a pair of black diamond compacts so they are compatable with my boot just fyi. i've used them literally once about a year ago and i have an ice axe as well. however i've never had a need to use the axe for a fall or well, anything other than a walking stick basically. it definitely has been hardly used but thats mainly because i've never needed to use it. i understand that now it might possibly be a necessary tool (more than likely). when i commented on my boots i was refering to the waterproofing mostly, wouldn't want wet feet on the mountain :-) . haha, so like i said before comments are def listened to. we're going out to have a great trip, if we don't summit it won't be the end of the world. weather will pretty much dictate how far we go and of course our feelings on what is too far. so just for curriosity, please enlighten me with some information on falling with an axe. i'd like to hear it. "self-arresting" thanks again for all the feedback!

An ice axe isn't really supposed to be used as a walking stick. You probably don't need one and it's probably too long, if that's all you're using it for. Alot of people do go up Whitney in May-June and use crampons and an ice axe for security, where more seasoned mountaineers can go without. When conditions get icy, you really have to know proper technique.

Self-belay keeps you from having to self-arrest, so use that technique. Switch hands and keep the ice axe up slope.

Self-arrest requires practice and training. You'll want someone who knows what they're doing, watching you and evaluating your technique. There are several combinations you need to know:

Head first on your back with left hand
Feet first on your back with left hand
Head first on your stomach with left hand
Feet first on your stomach with left hand
Head first on your back with right hand
Feet first on your back with right hand
Head first on your stomach with right hand
Feet first on your stomach with right hand

If you are travelling on steep hard pack or ice you should know crampon techniques as well.

Check out this site for some good basic info http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org

Extreme-

suggest that you go to a ski area and practice using your ice axe for self arrest. When you can stop yourself on a steep slope (single or double black diamond) in any position (head first, back, etc.) then you are safe for a climb. There are also some trainging programs that you can attend - check with a local REI, climbing gym, etc. Raineer Mountaineering has a good one day winter climbing program.

Anybody climbing a 14K mountain in the winter should be familiar with the use of crampons, ice axe and self arrest as well as basic rope skills. I have not climbed Whitney yet, but other 14ers. You just never know! Reading the book "Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills" is a good place to start and I suggest guided summer trips on ice and snow before doing a solo ascent in the winter. Don't become a statistic, be in balance with the mountain;)

Extreme Habbit, A good idea might be to go with a guide to learn the skills to get you up and more importantly back down again. I am planning a march trip and will be using George Dunn's IMG Guides http://www.mountainguides.com/ I went to Rainier last March with George through RMI and learned a lot. You can never replace experience.
Good luck and enjoy

This may be a dead topic by now, but so far no one's mentioned snowshoes or avalanch beacons, both likely essential pieces of gear. The avalanche danger could be extreme, depending on conditions. Best to get expert guidance on this before heading out.

Extreme Habit:
If you go to summitpost.com and look at "Whitney in Winter" by "Chucky" you will see a descent basic report, and a link to photos. I have climbed in Chile in Winter, France & Germany in Fall (snow), Lichtenstein in Summer and Fall (snow), and Whitney September 2000, tried January 2001 and made it agin in June 2001.
Our winter experience was really unique with the solitude and "quiet." We had to break trail up to the Portal and made Camp #1 there. It was 12F overnight. We camped 2/3 of the way to outpost Camp right o the trail for Camp #2. It was 8F there for the low.
We had to melt snow for all of our water needs. Our snow shoes did nto do much good as we still sank very deep due to the powdery snow (and we had BIG snow shoes). We never encountered a need for crampons but we had them (along with ice axes and ropes).
We had 5 members divided into two tent teams. We had "all of the gear" except avalanche beacons. Our sources said there was little chance of avalanche on the traditional route. Since we never got to the switchbacks I cannot confirm or deny it.
Of your particular interest, two of us got very cold toes. I had quality Montrail leather boots with quality gaiters. They did not do much for cold and I later used Scarpa "Vega" boots in France in the snow and was TOTALLY pleased.
If you are really ready for it have a blast and go for it!

Extreme, I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I'd have to agree with the advice for getting some ice axe training.

I had an aquaintance who has about your same exprerience, in the chute last year next to the 99, and while doing a sitting glisade, hit a patch of ice, and went flying....problem was, he didn't really know how to do an arrest with the axe he was holding. Fortunately, he hit a patch of soft snow after about 100 feet. He was wearing crampons, and if you don't know what is wrong with that picture, you need to do some reading, audience! He did not get hurt. Lucky.

As for the boot issue. Lots of ways to waterproof. You should use the same way that you have used before, mixing techniques can negate one another. Problem is, that trudging through snow all day just seems to make a leather boot wet, no matter what you've done. Also, they don't have much insulation. You can do it, though, and many do. From the standpoint of minimizing your discomfort, you might want to consider overboots, or supergaiters, both of which cover the leather, and provide some insulation. I remember that RJ Secor is a fan of supergaitors. Hey, but some people find that plastic bags work, and more power to them!

I'd like to underscore Ken's oblique reference to glissading with crampons. It's a good way to break an ankle or leg (think compound fracture...), and possibly worse, since if a crampon catches you could also lose control of the arrest and get killed when you hit whatever's at the bottom of the slope.